Breastfeeding is now chestfeeding, Brighton’s trans-friendly midwives are told

The erasure and wokeness for its own sake needs to stop. It isn't helping anyone and it puts women at risk.

There is so much wrong with maternity care and the language used in maternity care as it is- you only have to see threads on here where a woman has been ‘told’ she’s ‘not allowed’ to go past 38 weeks and will be getting induced (no other options discussed) or a woman pondering whether it was ok she consented to a vaginal exam only for the HCP to casually remark they ‘also did a sweep’ whilst they were there. I think many of us can look back at experiences in pregnancy and labour where facts and options weren’t explained properly, language was used that made it sound like we didn’t have choices, patronising language was used that made us feel inferior and situations (often violating and distressing) that happened without our consent. Where is the drive to change this language and attitude? It seems like nobody cares yet now there’s all this movement to improve things with gender-inclusive language, do these same people also care with the rest of the issues so passionately?

Get writing! Tell this Trust that they’re insulting and demeaning women. Copy your letters to your MP, the Health Secretary, and your local Press. Only women can become pregnant. Only women can give birth. Women who choose to identify as male, by becoming pregnant are rather obviously proving they’re not. An avalanche of letters is needed here. Doesn’t help that the local MP is Caroline Lucas of the Green Party that doesn’t support Women’s Sex-based Rights, #EA2010. Their claims to supporting women are completely undermined by them accepting Self-identifying males as women.

As I mentioned on the deleted thread- the words which have deep significance and meaning for the vast majority should be standard: woman, mother, breastfeeding, maternity and midwife.

For the tiny minority for whom those terms are offensive or upsetting there should be specific resources leaflets and webpages and training for staff just as there always has been on special circumstances, health conditions and cultural/religious awareness.

We also usually expect some quality data before implementing such sweeping changes. Where is it? Who needs these changes, how many are there of them accessing maternity services, how do they actually feel, what are their expectations and importantly what is the impact on the majority of women?

Even using requested terms with a patient individually is confusing though. A midwife talking about chest feeding because that’s what’s been requested would surely then also describe mastitis as a “chest infection”, with a symptom being “chest pain”. But those terms mean very different things to mastitis.

They want to erase women from breastfeeding but we can keep cancer.

Can we rename prostate cancer now too? It's not inclusive as a cancer

(If I may say "skirt around" or is it "trousersuit around" now?)

😂

Fucking priceless!

Are they going to start calling breast cancer chest cancer?

Seriously, why wouldn't they?

Men get it, so..

Chestfeeding - absolutely fucking ridiculous. Makes my blood boil, all of it.

Women give birth, women have breasts, women breast feed.

Any other phrases are just meaningless wokery.

The comment about that hospital not using the word ‘Mother’ is just so upsetting. It undermines and diminishes the significant change women go through when they become a mother. Like the change during puberty to becoming an adolescent, women change physically and mentally once they become a mother (this change is called matrescence) - it has a term but it’s not so well known).

I personally found this change massive, traumatic, difficult, heartbreaking and then wonderful but it’s a process that a women goes through as they leave their pre baby life behind and become a mother, also known as the birth of the mother. Is this really being taken away from us or in fact, worse, not acknowledged by some now? What a dreadful step backwards and I worry about maternal mental health. Knowing this was a process that new mothers went through was what helped me come to peace with the way I was feeling and my new identity after birth but I think I’d feel so alone if that was taken away from me.

The fact that three threads were started is indicative of how fundamental the topic is.

Mumsnet HQ should add a poll to the remaining thread in AIBU.

This topic is fundamental to Mums, so why would MN remove the thread?

The problems begin with trans women wanting to be in these spaces and then talking about how to emulate/simulate breastfeeding, and presenting any challenge to this narrative, however sympathetic, as 'transphobic' and 'hateful'.

Let me get this right. Transwomen e.g. m>f are invited to make full use of womanly 'things' and simulate 'breastfeeding' but women who have given birth are to deny their own identity and are forced to say that they're 'chest feeding' their baby human milk.

It must be informative for those who aren’t FWR regulars.

I have been quite at what some non FWR posters say on the AIBU threads as they speak more freely being unused to the moderation standards on this topic. Not that I think that what they are saying is wrong for the most part just direct, clear and to the point.

Is interesting! Arghhhh

It is not interesting how many threads there are about women’s rights & issues being affected by TRA are being started on AIBU And not by FWR regulars since the great multi thread discussion of the other week

Apparently too many posts violated the talk guidelines

The one left in AIBU doesn’t have voting unfortunately.

And now it has gone!

The vote was 99% YANBU.

I would want people providing me with medical care to acknowledge that I have breasts and not to skirt around using correct anatomical terms for the parts my female body. (If I may say "skirt around" or is it "trousersuit around" now?)

These days I feel like my identity as a cis-gendered woman (aka a person of the female sex) is being invalidated and erased. It really stresses me out that our culture is adopting trans-positive yet deeply misogynistic language which will make it impossible to discuss the experience of living in a female body and by extension to address the mountain of discrimination that is rooted in our bodies rather than our gender.

I don’t understand why institutions like the Brighton NHS trust, for-profit companies, research organisations, celebrities etc are so quick to appease the trans community at the expense of cis-gendered women. Is it just straight up endemic misogyny?

over 2500 comments in the Times already. This is really getting people angry. Exactly what's needed

I'd think it must be torturous to be a transman, having periods and all that entails- while taking male hormones. I can't imagine how confusing it must be, like a war in the body maybe.

I think actually that most transmen who take testosterone will find their periods stop. It's the ones who don't take it and the non-binary female people who seem to be particularly likely to language police. Especially non-binary female people who make no changes other than being called they/them as they have nothing to show how super special and different they are other than that they have forced everyone to adopt different terminology for them.

Why can't there be breastfeeding groups for bio women and also separate ones for transmen? It makes sense because both groups have different needs, completely different problems.

Because transmen would be welcome at groups, biologically the advice would be relevant, and although they may benefit from extra emotional support for different reasons to others, there wouldn't be enough in an area to make meaningful support groups. However, in that scenario you'd hope others in the group would use preferred pronouns, and the additional unique support could hopefully be sought online or through other avenues. As long as they didn't expect the entire language to be changed for everyone, just for them.

Transwomen on the other hand, aka men won't benefit from support groups, because the advice won't be relevant. General feeding groups, maybe, but as a formula feeder BFing groups would also be irrelevant, for example, and someone going in and asking for the nature of the group to be changed in case they were offended would not be welcomed. Not comparing FF and chestfeeding btw, the later is not in the best interest of the baby, and there's a lot of ??? around it.