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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Breastfeeding is now chestfeeding, Brighton’s trans-friendly midwives are told

607 replies

Mulletsaremisunderstood · 09/02/2021 17:41

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/breastfeeding-is-now-chestfeeding-brightons-trans-friendly-midwives-are-told-pwlvmcnc7

Hope this link works as I am a subscriber to the times and logged in.

More nonsense being peddled as 'progressive' Angry. When will the madness end!!?

OP posts:
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andyoldlabour · 10/02/2021 11:29

Justhadathought

Exactly, woman - human female, conceives, carries and nurtures the unborn child in the womb, gives birth to the child and then nurtures it by breastfeeding.
I am sure this must all be well documented somewhere, although possibly the Brighton trust has been getting cold lately and had their "Deutsche Studentenschaft" book burning moment.

merrymouse · 10/02/2021 11:28

@LordOfTheOnionRings

It's for trans men, not trans women. It's not replacing any language, it's in addition to, all you would have to say is 'i am a woman and please say breastfeeding' and they'll do it. It's breast/chest feeding.
It's not that simple.

'Chest feeding' is an assertion that 'breast feeding' is a statement of feminine identity, and that having breasts dictates your identity.

Health care providers need to be sympathetic to individuals to provide effective treatment. However, they should not be generally promoting an ideology, particularly one that is fundamentally sexist.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/02/2021 11:24

I have the comments problem. Paste the link into a different browser like Chrome.

BeanieSue · 10/02/2021 11:21

@diddl

Anyone else finding that the comments won't load on the Times article?

As a pp has put-men & women both have chests & breasts!

Instead of changing everything-can't communications/literature just be tailored to people who want non standard terms using?

I can't access the Times comments either. I would like to read what comments Jo March makes!
Justhadathought · 10/02/2021 11:17

It's for trans men, not trans women. It's not replacing any language, it's in addition to, all you would have to say is 'i am a woman and please say breastfeeding' and they'll do it. It's breast/chest feeding

No! If anything it should be the other way around. mother and breastfeeding is the automatic and natural assumption. If anyone has a genuine problem with that then they can request the words be changed.

However, you do realise the sort of psychological fragility this points to is not best suggestive of becoming a parent. The very first sound a baby makes, in all languages, is Mama, Ma, or similar ( apart from gurgling)

prisencolinensinainciusol2 · 10/02/2021 11:16

...they avoid some threads, don't they?

prisencolinensinainciusol2 · 10/02/2021 11:16

@Morred

I just can't get my head round why "menstruators" is acceptable for people who menstruate but "breastfeeders" isn't acceptable for people feeding from their breasts. If a woman can have a penis, surely men can have breasts?

Good questions. Where are the usual naysayers? We want answers..

Justhadathought · 10/02/2021 11:14

It's nonsense, if you are that triggered my female words/pronouns, how can you cope getting pregnant, pregnancy and birth

Indeed! Such psychological fragility would surely lead to psychological trauma.

Morred · 10/02/2021 11:08

I just can't get my head round why "menstruators" is acceptable for people who menstruate but "breastfeeders" isn't acceptable for people feeding from their breasts. If a woman can have a penis, surely men can have breasts?

Anonymum263 · 10/02/2021 11:01

So shocked by this.

diddl · 10/02/2021 10:59

Anyone else finding that the comments won't load on the Times article?

As a pp has put-men & women both have chests & breasts!

Instead of changing everything-can't communications/literature just be tailored to people who want non standard terms using?

littlbrowndog · 10/02/2021 10:54

It’s not chest feeding for ffs

Stop erasing us women

So rude and demeaning

derxa · 10/02/2021 10:52

Fucking chest feeding Angry

HermitsLife · 10/02/2021 10:43

@picklecustard

There is so much wrong with maternity care and the language used in maternity care as it is- you only have to see threads on here where a woman has been ‘told’ she’s ‘not allowed’ to go past 38 weeks and will be getting induced (no other options discussed) or a woman pondering whether it was ok she consented to a vaginal exam only for the HCP to casually remark they ‘also did a sweep’ whilst they were there. I think many of us can look back at experiences in pregnancy and labour where facts and options weren’t explained properly, language was used that made it sound like we didn’t have choices, patronising language was used that made us feel inferior and situations (often violating and distressing) that happened without our consent. Where is the drive to change this language and attitude? It seems like nobody cares yet now there’s all this movement to improve things with gender-inclusive language, do these same people also care with the rest of the issues so passionately?
This so much.

Its a few years since my last pregnancy, but from the experience of friends and family members not much has changed.

They need to get the basics right first. Less misogyny, more compassion.

Sheleg · 10/02/2021 10:42

@LordOfTheOnionRings

It's for trans men, not trans women. It's not replacing any language, it's in addition to, all you would have to say is 'i am a woman and please say breastfeeding' and they'll do it. It's breast/chest feeding.

All to appease a tiny minority? Why?!

Sheepies · 10/02/2021 10:36

I would have assumed that one impact of gender dysphoria would be a revulsion of the idea of being pregnant/breastfeeding, etc, so the number of transmen willing to do something which is so against their desire to live as a man, would be quite limited

You are making the mistake of applying logic.

Sheepies · 10/02/2021 10:33

all you would have to say is 'i am a woman and please say breastfeeding'

Why should we have to? Transmen make up a tiny % of those who give birth, why should it be default that everyone has to state whether they would like terms steeped in biological reality used, when the logical way is for transmen to say at the booking in app, please refer to me as x?

McDuffy · 10/02/2021 10:27

I posted on the smaller of the Aibu threads and just came back for a catch up to find it deleted Hmm. It's not a niche feminism issue when it's the third article on the Times app. Women are angry.

LaVitaPuoEsserePiuBella · 10/02/2021 10:22

@Marley20

I would not agree to have my babies at a hospital that refuses to use the word mother. If they can't be trusted to use basic vocabulary to describe the process there's no way I'd trust them with the health of myself or my babies
Absolutely 👍 So glad that I don't live in woke-tastic Brighton.
wincarwoo · 10/02/2021 10:15

@AfternoonToffee

I have read some of the comments on the FB Times article. I could cry. Women are happily throwing others under a bus just to appease a tiny minority.
Me too just read the front page and tears are welling up.
Muttonindistress · 10/02/2021 10:15

Being discussed on JV ((channel 5) in a minute.

LordOfTheOnionRings · 10/02/2021 10:13

It's for trans men, not trans women. It's not replacing any language, it's in addition to, all you would have to say is 'i am a woman and please say breastfeeding' and they'll do it. It's breast/chest feeding.

PerditaNitt · 10/02/2021 10:11

The BTL comments on the times article were pretty consistent (which is quite heartening when you start to wonder whether you’ve gone mad or if it is the world that is losing the plot...)

I’m curious about the actual number of transmen who do give birth in the UK. I would have assumed that one impact of gender dysphoria would be a revulsion of the idea of being pregnant/breastfeeding, etc, so the number of transmen willing to do something which is so against their desire to live as a man, would be quite limited. Also, for those on hormone medication, the likelihood of pregnancy would be lower. I’m afraid I don’t know any transmen in person, so these are just my best guesses - I would welcome some education on these points from those with direct experience or data.

JoodyBlue · 10/02/2021 09:59

@DaisiesandButtercups and @SweetMeadow I agree with what you say regarding the word Mother. The word Mother is also essential to kids. It denotes the start of life, birth into the world, primary care, ongoing nurturing, the place you turn for support and guideance, the easing of the baby to toddler, child, teen and adult.

I know that people will say not every kid has a mum. Also that for many this is a complex relationship. For the majority however, it is one of the most important relationships of our lives. It is also universal, beyond race or class or belief.

For those kids for whom the relationship is difficult or not present, still the word Mother becomes a role that someone else can take to assume the same importance in a child's life. But when this happens the child still has a beginning, a mother, the woman who carried and birthed that child.

Any move to reduce the power of the word mother, mummy, mum, mom, mam, mama, ma, madre, etc etc is deeply misogynistic and very very concerning. If you don't buy into womanhood fair enough. But do not inflict that on the next generation. You have no right to do that. It is playing biology via big pharma and it is not right.

I've been posting here a while now, usually in a measured and calm and analytic fashion. This post today has filled me with rage. Motherhood is fucking primal..... do not take its language away.

Marley20 · 10/02/2021 09:59

I would not agree to have my babies at a hospital that refuses to use the word mother. If they can't be trusted to use basic vocabulary to describe the process there's no way I'd trust them with the health of myself or my babies

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