Do you talk about this at home?

@Sittingathome
You're not alone. It's a bit of an eye opener isn't it?

I'm so glad I found this thread today.

I am a feminist. I also thought I was tolerant of trans people, but apparently, by thinking of trans people as trans, that makes me transphobic. And then I think, am I? Am I just a version of a gammon? Am I like all those people who think they're nice people, it's just it's not right those.....are coming over here....? How can I have more in common with daily mail writers or Tories? How have I got this so wrong? I've had to nc here cos I'm paranoid about anyone from work finding out my dark secret.

I've also followed a thread on a running group today, which was pretty jaw dropping (and has every cliche I see when tw come on mn threads), with transphobic being levelled at anyone who even dared suggest than tw have an advantage in sports. I'm just so tired of it. I wanted to go on a challenge the use of the word 'hysteria ' too, but didn't have the guts.

@prisencolinensinainciusol2 Sorry, just seen your comment. I would love to tell you, but unfortunately said son has admitted to lurking on MN now and then, and I'd be outing myself!

I can discuss it at home with husband but not teenager.

Husband feels I talk about it too much but understands that I find the dissonance too hard to deal with. He teases me by reminding me I am a ‘just a vulva person’ or whatever, so he gets it.

He tells me though that he thinks women just need to ‘get it together’ to push back. . So, lately I just point out how women are ‘getting it together’ and how women are being treated and how so many people are still on the ‘be kind’ page. He is beginning to understand the depth of the capture. He hadn’t noticed before.

He is about to change jobs and I think he might realize he was in a bit of a bubble. I suspect this new workplace will be very different to his last.

@Beamur

I don't see how wanting to be seen as a wolf is any more silly than expecting others to address you as xe or xer. My autocorrect is apparently transphobic, it tried to type 'we' and 'see' for xe and xer. 😁

Even though Mr C agrees with the batshittery of much of the ideology and wokeness, I find more of and more his reaction to anything I bring up about it is slightly patronising. Like 'yes dear, that's nice.'

So much of what's discussed here isn't in the public eye mainstream media, especially if you're not on twitter etc. I think he's still under the impression that there aren't any RL consequences of it. He's not really a 'just be kind' pushover, more of a 'whatever, doesn't affect me' type. It's still mostly hypothetical and nimby.

I think forewarned is now forearmed. We've always been a fairly gender non conforming family in terms of roles and DD has grown up knowing that stereotypes can be harmful etc, even this is not necessarily insulation enough against genderism.
But she and I trod carefully on this issue and we've been gently discussing it for a couple of years. She has been quite cross with me at times.
I wasn't dismissive, but put forward some of the arguments she probably wasn't hearing and asked her some questions that made her think a bit more.
She's recently hit peak rant mostly I think because she's now more active on social media and it's everywhere. She's very arty but has started unfollowing some artists once she clocks nonsense in their bio's. Xenogenders are the final straw it seems...
Interestingly it seems that a lot of trans people are equally unimpressed with identities around wolves for example. Not furries, actual wolves. So she tells me. Unsurprisingly the only limits to gender identity are human imagination.

Most of you are so lucky to have done GC teens. DH gets it but like lots of men, thinks I’m blowing it out of proportion. DD’s (18 and 20) suddenly thought I’d turned into Donald Trump and were furious with me - obviously my lefty ways throughout their entire lives was just a cunning plan. Now we cannot discuss it at all and I’m just playing a long game as I didn’t see it at first either.
Funnily enough, youngest laughed nervously when a friend of hers (boy) was being what I consider, quite transphobic. Wish I’d caught them with this as pre-teens.

prisencolinensinainciusol2

Exactly what I was thinking

DS2 is now fully GC after a dating incident.

Please don't leave us hanging on!

Just a few details? Please?

DH completely agrees with me on all of it, but since it doesn't impinge on his reality that much he's not as concerned as I am. I know he has had chats with his family though, who all agree with him, thank god.

DD, 20s, totally gets it and is quietly GC. I think she's had a few conversations with friends, and tackled her father, who's very much 'be kind' and 'I can't see a problem'. DS1 is totally woke and very touchy, and I don't go anywhere near it. DS2 is now fully GC after a dating incident. DS3 is still pretty woke on this issue, and doesn't like me talking about it. Mainly, I suspect, because he can't back up his position and doesn't want to have to deal with the psychological/social fallout if he admits to himself that the TRA position is fundamentally misogynistic.

Lots of eye rolling if I try to discuss it at home.
Son getting better at understanding and sent me a short South Park snippet about TW athletes
DD had a TG friend but not in contact now. DD struggled to call friend by new pronouns - having known this friend as opposite gender.
Another friend's child is TG- DD asked 'why???' I've no answer for her
DH will not discuss; its a case of not that again.......

"It really is the emperor's new clothes."

100% this and anyone who thinks the above is fair, is totally deluded or being deliberately misogynistic.

[quote andyoldlabour]I think my DW can see through it, but doesn,t like me speaking about it. If anyone on here has a person in their life who is borderline GC, then they may wish to show them this article from 2012. If it doesn't open their eyes for good then nothing will.

www.lifesitenews.com/news/50-year-old-transsexual-8216woman8217-makes-college-basketball-debut-video[/quote]
*Central Valley Conference, Commissioner Logan McKechnie said, while Luwdig is tall, his state certification as a female is all that matters. “I don’t think, frankly, fairness enters into it,” he said.

Another commissioner, Dale Murray of the Coast Conference, believes Ludwig is evenly matched with his competitors and “just happens to be a bit taller than everyone else.”*

I despair.🙄

It really is the emperor's new clothes.

Indulging a fantasy is something I associate with children, not fully grown adults.

I think my DW can see through it, but doesn,t like me speaking about it. If anyone on here has a person in their life who is borderline GC, then they may wish to show them this article from 2012. If it doesn't open their eyes for good then nothing will.

www.lifesitenews.com/news/50-year-old-transsexual-8216woman8217-makes-college-basketball-debut-video

JoodyBlue

I am with you 100% on this. So much about the current approach to diversity and inclusion seems to achieve the opposite of what it intends to. I am all for celebrating difference but we should also be highlighting what we have in common, what we all share and how we can move forward to an improved future for everyone.

Instead of celebrating difference current approaches appear more about establishing a hierarchy of oppression and apportioning blame.

As a woman and a mother I feel aware of things which I would find in common especially with mothers the world over but with women more generally too. The differences between the two sexes is the only genuine deeply rooted difference being based in biology, the rest is culture.

came out of their diversity training feeling that they must all be terrible people on account of their white, male heterosexuality, even though they're all lovely and decent

This is actually the entry point for my DC into the incel/mra/tra.

I didn’t know how much sex mattered in raising him, I used my female childhood as a template (intense socialisation, care for others put above care for self, all the responsibility and none of the power)

As a male child he received all the male socialisation (powerful, to be listened to, world literally built around them, to be serviced by females etc) plus me overcompensating for my troubled childhood (you do have personal power etc)

And unwittingly I have given him a double dose of confidence - not an issue until pounced on by these disaffected men online (& influence of my abusive ex) and twisted into arrogance, self-entitlement, and anger at not having what as a man he ‘deserves’ and blaming women for that lack thereof.

The reason I quoted PP is because that phrasing is the same as his usage. At any point he is centring himself.

Diversity training is, I thought, about getting to know the difficulties facing other people and how to help mitigate, alleviate or stop those barriers so we can all move on together.

My DC would see it and respond with something similar to rhe quote. No thought about the people he is meant to be learning about just ‘poor me, why I am I having to do this, everyone thinks I’m the bogeyman’ and thats where incel/mra/tra have their hook.

They perpetuate the man = special and if you are not getting special treatment, or worse having to endure being lumped in with non-special people (like women, or depending on flavour of ‘special men’ gays, poc, the differently abled - basically anyone not ‘them’) then you are being hard done by.

Learning about ‘others’ is seen as a punishment, not an opportunity, never mind doing any work at all to help or assist ‘others’ and if the ‘others’ get centred, even for a brief moment, they are raging at the unjustness of it all.

Sorry Owl I’m not singling out you/your DH its the phrasing being similar to what my DC has used in conversation about women’s fears over self-id that sparked of the above thoughts.

I am grateful you posted and it did strike a chord because it just gave me the opportunity to think all of that through and realise my mistakes as a mother raising a boy.

Hopefully it will also help me navigate our relationship with more insight than I had before and I appreciate all the help I can get!

I was probably more lib fem in my 20's but my feminism has changed. I have been talking to my DD about everything under the sun from before she could reply! My awakening to this issue was accompanied by quite a lot of ranting but it is more zen now.
DH did tire of the ranting but does see the problem and agrees with me that just shifting the definition of woman to include anyone will throw up problems. He is very involved with a sport that both men and women compete to high standards in but are divided by physiology. Not cycling but similar. A man identifying as female and competing would be almost impossible to beat.
DD is firmly GC but we had some spiky conversations along the way. Rather sweetly she thanked me recently for being so patient, tenacious and relatively well informed. She said that the GC perspective is almost absent in mainstream media and social media and without talking with me she wouldn't have seen the bigger picture.
This puts her in a slightly challenging situation as most of her friends are quite non conforming but mired in identity stuff which she rejects.

I was a radfem in the 1970’s, so I’ve raised my DDs as full on kick ass feminists.
DD1, who like me is autistic, actually started an online support group called gender critical autistics. She was videoed giving a presentation at the protest on the Mound in Edinburgh, so thankfully I am singing to the choir with my family!
My late DH would have been so proud of her - he died when she was 2, but was very much a feminist ally.

Dh agrees with me

Dd is very much in the be kind camp

Both boys and ds1 partner agree GENERALLY with me, but they do enjoy winding me up

I asked ds2 for a job when he is PM and he said ‘ you can be in charge of the ‘woman's rights and anti trans rights department’ and im obviously absolutely NOT anti trans rights and he knows that and was just being mean 😩 (might need to double check that)

I talk about it a lot too. My eldest DS is at uni doing a science subject and still believes in lady brain and man brain. He says TWAW. But he doesn’t think this is right in sports, or prison cells.
And as he admits, he’s not overly fussed because it doesn’t affect him personally.

Middle DS is firmly GC and openly guffaws at his older brother . He is 6th form , but knows not to express his views as openly at college.

Primary school DD is firmly GC currently , we often discuss the issue and I keep a close eye on what PSHE type classes she has. We have watched the CBBC prog with trans issues together (I prefer to watch with her and discuss than stop her watching them to make sure it’s all out in the open ). There was the Australian series about a transgirl called Hannah. And then another prog about a girl’s mum who became her dad ‘My Two Dads’ I think. We discuss the reality of sex , how girls should be able to have short hair and climb trees and it doesn't make them a boy etc.

My close male friend is on board with my GC objections but similarly feels it doesn’t affect him. He doesn’t agree with males against females in sports etc, but he thinks of TW as being non-men, sort of an in between I suppose. I was really surprised when he said that, to be honest. Again I think it’s a case of it doesn’t really affect me - if TW are out of my space then, shrug, doesn’t affect him as a man.

I rant about it lots. DH is also GC. His entry point and tipping point was child welfare.

Yes. DH completely agrees with me but is fed up of my 'banging on about it'. We watched the South Park 'Strongwoman' episode the other day and were both in fits of laughter - I was explaining some of the references and he got the serious side, especially when the news broke about 'Gabbi Tuft' the next day.
He works as a techy but in a particularly 'woke' industry and he and his team came out of their diversity training feeling that they must all be terrible people on account of their white, male heterosexuality, even though they're all lovely and decent.
DD14 is GC and thankfully has inherited her mother's cynical streak. She absolutely loves playing rugby and is missing it terribly at the moment. Is currently at a big multinational state school in another country for a year, maybe more. Fortunately they don't have any form of SRE there. She hangs out in a big mixed sex group and counts a lesbian girl (who is, admittedly troubled) and a gay lad among her closest friends. It really is no big deal to them.
We discuss things a lot and I don't hold back on the harms being done to kids by this ideology. She tells me that a group of her friends have suddenly started cutting themselves and we've had some good chats about social contagion. We talk about things quite openly, including how porn soaked and grim some of the boys in her class are and issues around consent and relationships.
My younger DD absolutely loves playing football and hasn't had any thoughts about whether the sport is for boys or girls as far as I know. She and her younger brother know how babies are made and that there are only two sexes and that's about as much as is required for now. I'm keeping a close eye on the school's policies though.