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Original poster

#DontSubmitToStonewall - suggested quick action by Legal Feminist

190 replies

stumbledin · 06/02/2021 23:58

(From twitter post)

A follow up on the Stonewall long read: this one is a very short call for a simple (2-3 minute) action.

Please share widely. #DontSubmitToStonewall twitter.com/hashtag/DontSubmitToStonewall?src=hashtag_click

Please share and submit a request or two. Whatdotheyknow.com makes it very straightforward. If you don't dare ask your own public authority employer, maybe swap with a friend.

legalfeminist.org.uk/2021/02/04/shining-a-light-on-stonewalls-activities/?_thumbnail_id=451

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
Tibtom · 08/02/2021 00:13

@Precipice

Re: pseudonyms

I think as long as your pseudonym reads like a real name, you're unlikely to have problems. So 'Angry Woman' is suspect in a way "Janet Gordon" might not be. The one in the link upthread came suspect because they said it was a reversal of a likelier name and seemed questionable by that.

The resulting problem is that you can't complain to the Information Commissioner (or however exactly the next port of call is) if public authority's response is wildly inadequate. But I think this is sacrificable.

If you have a common enough surname, FOI's own information allows you to put in an initial instead of your name. But the thing broadly is searchable by search engine. The problem then comes if you have a very rare (or even individual) surname. Then there is no escape by their rules and under the latter circumstance, I am not going to submit my name to that.

I've put in an FOI under a pseudonym. We shall see. It's a real surname, even with some broader connection to me, it's just not mine.

If you identify as having that name then surely it is your name. To suggest you actually have another name would be to deadname you, even if you are name-fluid and only identify as that name on the first sunday in months with an 'f'?
Original poster
stumbledin · 07/02/2021 23:21

allmywhat - brilliant - must be satisfying to out smart some else's bad database design! Have a Brew or maybe a Wine.

Does anyone know if you can FOI charities?

OP posts:
Redshoeblueshoe · 07/02/2021 23:11

Place marking

allmywhat · 07/02/2021 23:04

Thank you Valancy!

I sorted out the date restriction problem (for anyone who might be wondering, you have to separately date-restrict both versions of the hashtag) and I'm pretty sure this is the definitive list of all requests so far. There are still duplicates on the list, but I think they are legitimate duplicates where the request was submitted twice.

pastebin.com/ryG9rhPV

ValancyRedfern · 07/02/2021 22:18

Wow allmywhat good work!

allmywhat · 07/02/2021 22:06

disappointed update- I just realised that restricting searches by date on the whatdotheyknow website appears to simply not work. I've tried sevaral times to ask it for requests made before 4th February 2021 and it's pulling up requests made after that date. This messes up my list - I've got about 400 of the requests made (up to page 15 of the search results, beyond which the website stops functioning) but without being able to restrict search results by date I can't get the rest and so it's filling up with duplicates.

That website can't handle us!

www.whatdotheyknow.com/search/%23DontSubmitToStonewall%20OR%20%23dontsubmittostonewall%2001/01/2021..04/02/2021/ if anyone can get the date restricted search functioning properly let me know and I can generate the complete list

allmywhat · 07/02/2021 20:58

I also (very roughly) cross-referenced the above with the Stonewall Champions list (education, local government and emergency services sections only) and came up with the following that have probably not been FOI'd

pastebin.com/yQ1AKaf7

Above list is not reliable but i have done a few spot checks and it seems like a good starting point.

allmywhat · 07/02/2021 20:53

Hey all, I made a list of all the orgs that have been submitted to. There are probably some duplicates but I thought this might be handy

pastebin.com/uNXShx3r

I can update this in a few days as it's running from a script.

This was just annoying enough to shake me out of a deeply mopey mood (search links don't work past page 15 on that site, also none of the modern scraping tools worked for some reason and I had to go really old school, swearing at the computer is much more fun than feeling mopey.)

WeeTorag · 07/02/2021 17:50

[quote OhHolyJesus]@WeeTorag just to let you know that Standing for Women are also looking at NHS trusts for their new campaign:

My body
My choice
My space
My voice

www.standingforwomen.com/research-help[/quote]
Ahh thanks, I'll take a look. 🙏

OhHolyJesus · 07/02/2021 17:38

@WeeTorag just to let you know that Standing for Women are also looking at NHS trusts for their new campaign:

My body
My choice
My space
My voice

www.standingforwomen.com/research-help

Precipice · 07/02/2021 17:33

Re: pseudonyms

I think as long as your pseudonym reads like a real name, you're unlikely to have problems. So 'Angry Woman' is suspect in a way "Janet Gordon" might not be. The one in the link upthread came suspect because they said it was a reversal of a likelier name and seemed questionable by that.

The resulting problem is that you can't complain to the Information Commissioner (or however exactly the next port of call is) if public authority's response is wildly inadequate. But I think this is sacrificable.

If you have a common enough surname, FOI's own information allows you to put in an initial instead of your name. But the thing broadly is searchable by search engine. The problem then comes if you have a very rare (or even individual) surname. Then there is no escape by their rules and under the latter circumstance, I am not going to submit my name to that.

I've put in an FOI under a pseudonym. We shall see. It's a real surname, even with some broader connection to me, it's just not mine.

WeeTorag · 07/02/2021 17:23

[quote FannyCann]@allmywhat I use a pseudonym for WhatDoTheyKnow as I submitted an FOI to my own employer (and for a while had a desk next to the FOI officer Grin).
It would be sensible to make a different email address to be safe, using your pseudonym. [/quote]
You little devil!! 😈 Love that. Hope it was fruitful and satisfying.

I love this campaign, such a genius idea. I've requested FOI for LA's already and plan to do more. Worried about my local NHS trust too so they are my next target.

OldCrone · 07/02/2021 16:47

@stumbledin

Is there a place where there is a list of those who have been FOIed?
Not one which is easy to cross reference with the Diversity Champions list.

This is the current list of FOIs
www.whatdotheyknow.com/search/%23DontSubmitToStonewall/all

And this is the Stonewall list of diversity champions.
www.stonewall.org.uk/diversity-champions-members

I think this is one of the pitfalls of uncoordinated action. The good part is that lots of people can easily join in, but the negative side is that it's difficult to keep track of what's been done and what still needs doing.

Original poster
stumbledin · 07/02/2021 16:16

Is there a place where there is a list of those who have been FOIed?

OP posts:
allmywhat · 07/02/2021 15:58

OK apparently requests submitted under a pseudonym are invalid, and if they suspect you are using a pseudonym they can ask for proof of identity and refuse to process the request. See this mad exchange.
www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/exploration_of_possible_impacts#incoming-1714467

I won't risk using a pseudonym then. Someone who can't find any un-requested send me a DM? I can tell you two that aren't done!

Deltoids1 · 07/02/2021 15:21

Oven submitted a few more requests today. There’s well over 330 now.
Might also be worth submitting a request to your local Safeguarding Board. Whilst they might not use Stonewall, someone might start noting there’s an issue and start digging into why.

Haskell · 07/02/2021 13:20

I have received FOI requests in a school, through WDTK, so I think yes, you can FOI schools (not on this topic though!).

Thelnebriati · 07/02/2021 13:13

I'm really interested in the equality impact assessments they all did.

ValancyRedfern · 07/02/2021 13:06

Just done one. Exciting! I found a uni near me that hadn't been done on the third attempt. So definitely still worth searching.

OldCrone · 07/02/2021 12:02

@Tibtom

Can you foi schools?
Yes, but schools will be probably be members of the Stonewall schools champions scheme, rather than the diversity champions scheme, so you'd have to change the wording of the FOI to make sure you get some information.

Thousands of schools are listed on the what do they know site, so check there first, and if it's not there, you can ask them to add it.

A separate campaign to FOI schools might be worth doing. I mentioned that on the AIBU thread, but I don't think it was discussed further.

OhHolyJesus · 07/02/2021 11:51

Can you foi schools?

Yes I think you can, but if you can't find them on the website you can email them direct.

FannyCann · 07/02/2021 11:49

It's odd the list of diversity champions hasn't been updated since 2015. I've done a couple to names that weren't on the list just incase...

Though most organisations are proud to proclaim their stonewall credentials so it can usually be checked on their website if you are looking for any that have slipped through the net.

nothingcomestonothing · 07/02/2021 11:34

I am loving that it's so hard to find one who haven't been done already! I've done one, will do more when I've got more time (and peace from DC)

334bu · 07/02/2021 11:06

Anyone else having difficulties registering with What do they know. Haven't received email to confirm. ( I've looked in Spam too)