Friends dd has just come out as agender

I wonder. Would it be OK to say to the agender child something along the lines of, ' Yes, all this talk about 'gender' as though it were a real thing is just really silly, isn't it? '

Or would people think that 'unkind'?

[After all, it is really silly, is it not?]

And it's no skin off your nose to try it.

No, it indicates that the 16 year old wants the OP to change the OP’s grammar. There is nothing about “to them [sic]”. You’ve inferred that, it hasn’t been implied. In real life, the only way the OP would have to use “they” as a third person pronoun would be if the OP was talking to someone else with the 16 year old present.

You could ask the teenager to define “gender”. Then point out it is all regressive sexist stereotypes.
Tell her all adult feminists are in effect “agender” because we reject it as patriarchal conditioning - we have a sex, not a “gender”. Congratulate her for joining the GC radfems.

[quote MumOfPsuedoAdult]@NotBadConsidering you've missed my point entirely.

By saying what she did the OP is making it about her opinion rather than about the person's choices.

And when you say And if you changed your name by deed poll and weren’t here and I wanted to talk about you, I would talk about you however I want and use whatever name I wanted to you're doing the same.[/quote]
Yes that’s correct. It is MY opinion and decision how I talk, whether to respect your choice or not. You can’t compel me to do so if you’re not there. If you’ve chosen a name I will address you by that name, regardless of my opinion of the name. I come across stupid names every day. But when I was at home, and when I talk about you I will express my opinion however I want.

When the OP is talking about this child to other people, there is no need to use “they” because the child isn’t there to hear it. It would only be an issue is someone grassed on the OP and said “ *Teenageromance misgendered you!”

In the presence of the child it would be “you”. No one should be compelled to lie, no one should be compelled to “be kind” to someone who isn’t even present, while denying the accuracy of language and bowing to an ideology they don’t believe in.

It's not really surprising that teenagers are confused about their gender identity. They're told that they should have one, but nobody can explain what it is without resorting to regressive sexist stereotypes.

One of the most succinct and helpful summaries of the issues I've ever seen! Nail on the head there. I think I am 'confused about my gender identity' too if I think about it though I don't care as it does seem to be about regressive stereotypes.

It’s only polite and the they pronoun has a long history.

People keep saying this but it’s not the same at all. The use of “they” as a singular pronoun is either for when you’re not speaking about a specific person, or for when a person’s sex is not known.

Insisting that others use “they/their” about you, when they know your sex but you don’t want them to make any reference to it, is an entirely different situation.

@NotBadConsidering you've missed my point entirely.

By saying what she did the OP is making it about her opinion rather than about the person's choices.

And when you say And if you changed your name by deed poll and weren’t here and I wanted to talk about you, I would talk about you however I want and use whatever name I wanted to you're doing the same.

Gender not danger!

Just call her by the name she wants and use they as a pronoun. It’s only polite and the they pronoun has a long history.

It worries me too that girls feel so straight jacketed by their danger, but I get the point that being an adult woman doesn’t look like a whole bunch of fun. Agender is a new term to me - but you could take it to me that people have a biological sex but the rest is individual character, if you have the opportunity to chat to her you could talk this through as a sharing of ideas.

I understand your concerns, but I think the best way to approach this is with curiosity, to explore why she feels straight jacketed by her gender, because whatever your views, it’s an interesting and important area. The chances are once she’s worked this thorough she’ll go back to thinking of herself as a woman, but hopefully this period will help her feel that it’s a less limiting space than it seems now.

We're talking about a teenager here, one who's confused about their gender identity, that makes them vulnerable and at risk of depression and self harm.

Someone who is at risk of depression and self-harm needs to be referred by their GP for appropriate support for their mental health.

Treat her the same as you normally would, she is trying to be trendy and attention seeking. She will hopefully grow out of it.

but she's using different pronouns and I don't agree with that

As mentioned by a PP, if I legally changed my name to one you didn't like/approve of (because you'd always known me as mumof..) would you refuse to use it?

Whether you agree with it or not, it's her choice so 'not agreeing with it' is your problem not hers and it would be disrespectful not to use it.

She's a teenager and anyone who has one knows that some things they do are for effect/to exercise their independence. She may grow out of it, but she may not. This will be difficult enough for your friend without you adding your judgement.

The actual, underlying life events that cause the child to express pain in today's socially acceptable language are not limited to: parental divorce, being gay, being autistic, being adhd, sexual abuse, bullying, being gender non conforming, being a girl growing up in a misogynist society and porn soaked culture etc.

My understanding is that non binary is a belief you don't have a sex, you believe you are neither male or female.
Agender is you don't identify as any gender, so the social construct.
Is this right? Also I have considered calling myself gender free or agender but it still doesn't seem right when what I really want to say is I don't believe in gender ideology. It's like you are being asked what is your religion and having no option to say none.

I think you can ignore the pronoun debate and have some healthy discussion about gender stereotypes and how sexist they are and as a femsle she can do anything she wants. My daughter gets told she can't be a pilot by her sexist male classmates which she found really distressing. But now she has a question for them 'why do you fly a plane with your penis?"
I think you will have a lot of common ground and whilst you are talking to her there is no need for pronouns.

I think your friend may be feeling quite scared and your support with honesty out of earshot of the child is probably what's she needs. As parents we are allowed to talk about children!

Interesting about the Desisters that noone questioned them, we shouldn't be frightened to challenge our children. Isn't rebellion a natural phase of development, if we don't challenge then where is the rebellion?

@PrawnPower thank you...that’s a good point!

If you are someone who thinks that pronouns don't relate to biological sex and do to gender, please let us know how you refer to pets. Because unless you've asked them how they feel or what their gender is, you simply can't call a female cat or dog "she" - because pronouns are not related to sex. You'll need to be saying "they" I guess? Or are there different pronouns for animals whose gender identity we're not yet sure of?

Also, I'm guessing you don't really use pronouns for anybody who hasn't explicitly told you what theirs are, otherwise you'll be assuming their pronouns based on their sex..which is, apparently, entirely wrong.

In reality there shouldn’t be a need to use ‘they’ - when this girl is present just use her name or ‘you’. Job done. I’m with you on this one OP, being of the opinion that the vast majority of people just have a biological sex and a personality. Also agree with the poster upthread who said that using ‘they’ when you know someone’s sex is awkward and creates dissonance.

BTW Apparently if you don’t have a ‘gender identity’ yourself (or don’t buy into the gender woo) you are also agender OP! From Wiki: “Agender people ('a-' meaning "without"), also called genderless, gender-free, non-gendered, or ungendered, are those who identify as having no gender or being without a gender identity.”

Do you know one of the terribly narratives common if you reach the accounts of the desisters is they often say how nobody said anything to them. No one challenged them. This affirmation model results in adults smiling and nodding, or jumping completely on the affirmation bandwagon. Desisters speak to what a huge let down this was.

They are child decided they're going to transition & the entire world smiles along and adopts pronouns. No
One ever say "you know it's bullshit you can't actually change sex right?"

if this is in conflict with how you "believe" then say so. Remember beliefs are the main priority now so what's wrong with talking about your beliefs?

the alternative is going along with something this child believes about herself that was planted in her mind by strangers on the Internet with dubious motives.

Be the trusted adult.

Just treat her as you always have. 99% chance it’s a rebellious/discovering yourself phase she will grow out if like we did with punk and then the next generation with goth and the one after with emo. These days it’s not culture/fashion it’s gender. It will pass.