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Original poster

AIBU to think there’s benefits to communal changing rooms

217 replies

IWillSqueakAgain · 04/02/2021 13:52

I know I’m on fwr

This is about SINGLE SEX changing rooms. Not mixed sex, not toilet stalls and so on.

I’m struggling to think of my wording here so thought I’d ask other women who know biology their opinions. I don’t want to put it in aibu because I think too many would deliberately misread it and pile on.

On some of the recent threads a few have brought up single ‘stalls’ and how this should be the norm everywhere.

I think the use of lesbians eying up women or women being scared as they were victims of women and so on are easy to identify false equivalencies to reframe or misdirect the arguement, it’s not difficult to see that bs for what it is. I feel like the idea we should all have single cubicles for all changing is also a form of this misdirection, but I can’t quite articulate it fully and wanted others thoughts.

So firstly the idea that it’s easy or an economical use of space to turn all communal changing rooms into single cubicles is false. It’s not just one cubicle for one woman, because we need ones for mother’s with young children and so on, and setting up the space to cater for this means way fewer woman can get changed at the same time.

This aside, I think there’s something normal and healthy about girls/adolescents seeing the reality of women’s biology.

I think any adult or child who wants to charge in a cubicle should, their dignity and choice should be catered for also. I’m not saying any single cubicle only spaces should change to have some communal women’s changing areas by any means.

But there are plenty of women’s changing room that are set up to have communal areas as well as some cubicles also. This isn’t new and in my experience is the norm still.

While this is common sense use of space I think there’s knock on benefits of this set up.

Girls grow up in a world that at best portrays women’s bodies as air brushed, enhanced, flawless male fantasy. Often younger generations are exposed to a pornified image of how women should look naked.

Surely it’s not a bad thing for girls/teens/young women to see that women have normal bodies. That we have stretch marks and wobbly bits just like they do. That the image of how women should looked that’s pushed down their throats isn’t at all representative of actual women and that they don’t need to beat themselves up for not looking like those images.

Isn’t it a good thing that growing up girls see that there are times other women have blood on their pants, tampon string hanging out, breasts needing rearranging in their bras and so on. Rather than teen girls hitting puberty being humiliated by flooding in public or being embarrassed by how opening a pad sounds isn’t it a good thing they’ve already seen that this is just part of having a woman’s body and not something us other women feel ashamed of or should be hidden away.

I think there’s something about insisting single cubicles should be the norm and meets all our needs overlooks the image it sends of women’s bodies needing to be hidden, when there’s plenty reasonable circumstances when among women only it’s entirely normal to not ‘hide’ our bodies.

There’s plenty circumstances in life when women being comfortable being semi naked around other women is beneficial. Giving birth, learning to breastfeed, when we might need personal care with toileting or bathing either due to age or other medical circumstances. It’s a good thing if it’s normal for women to be comfortable with other women before we get to these stages, growing up getting changed around other women is part of that. Not saying it’s the only part of that or that it should be pushed on anyone uncomfortable, but it’s just part of every day life for women ime.

I’m not sure I’m expressing this correctly, but I feel like the idea single cubicles are the perfect solution overlooks the fact that not only are plenty of women fine with communal single sex changing facilities, but that there’s actually a positive effect from them on how we view our bodies and their functions.

Does this make sense to other women here? Is there a better way of explaining this?

OP posts:
peak2021 · 05/02/2021 09:47

I think that shop changing (rarely naked or even topless) is not a comparison to make.

Datun · 05/02/2021 01:49

I just am glad my instinct that the ‘seperate cubicles is the ideal solution for everyone’ is just the red herring to shut up women who fight for our status quo of single sex spaces.

Deffo. Completely transparent.

And yes, to not liking communal changing rooms in shops. Thankfully they seem to be a thing of the past. But they used to be commonplace.

Oddly, I'd rather communal changing at a gym than a shop.

ChestnutStuffing · 05/02/2021 01:39

So what? Much of human behaviour is cultural and socialised. Like eg not killing each other, or women getting to consent to sex (for the most part), or pissing and shitting in a toilet instead of just anywhere. Shall we stop doing those things because they're not innate?

That's rather strange reasoning the reason we encourage socialised taboos around those things is that they are, in and of themselves, undesirable and just bad.

The point with this is that a socially created aversion to communal change rooms has little or no real inherent undesirability or moral issues attached, and the OP is suggesting could have some up-sides.

The reason some people have disagreed is a desire for privacy, a feeling - the point Clymene made was that this is a socially created feeling so would not be a factor if it was more normative.

merrymouse · 04/02/2021 22:48

I only recall changing in a communal changing room in a shop once, I didn’t realise it didn’t have cubicles and I was mortified trying to pull up clothes I didn’t know fitted me or not.

I very much agree about the reason communal fitting rooms are awful.

feelingverylazytoday · 04/02/2021 22:46

@Clymene

And the wanting privacy thing is totally cultural and socialised. Let's not pretend it's about some innate 'feeling'. It's not.
So what? Much of human behaviour is cultural and socialised. Like eg not killing each other, or women getting to consent to sex (for the most part), or pissing and shitting in a toilet instead of just anywhere. Shall we stop doing those things because they're not innate?
Original poster
IWillSqueakAgain · 04/02/2021 22:44

And if they don’t like the gym changing rooms they can use the cubicles. But cubicles only instead of single sex spaces rather than as well as doesn’t meet women’s needs for privacy, safety, dignity. Like I said it’s a red herring to distract from women’s reasonable legally protected right to single sex spaces.

OP posts:
Original poster
IWillSqueakAgain · 04/02/2021 22:41

Again feeling you can read the detailed description of the three seperate changing rooms at the gym I use, with the description of included cubicles etc within the family/disabled access/mixed sex one and the women’s.

That’s what i had in mind when asking this and I think that’s pretty obvious from the description given.

I never suggested anywhere not have unisex/family changing, just that single sex option is essential also, and that cubicles only approach doesn’t magically meet the needs single sex spaces do, despite the constant claims on the AIBU threads that it does.

OP posts:
feelingverylazytoday · 04/02/2021 22:39

Iwillsqueakagain
So you didn't like using them because of the mirrors? Other people didn't like using them because of them being ... communal.

Clymene · 04/02/2021 22:37

And the wanting privacy thing is totally cultural and socialised. Let's not pretend it's about some innate 'feeling'. It's not.

feelingverylazytoday · 04/02/2021 22:36

The only people it wouldn't work for it seems are the men
I believe that unisex changing changing villages were designed with families in mind, so that single parents could go swimming and get changed with opposite sex children, so not just men.

Clymene · 04/02/2021 22:35

I mean because I think we're afraid of of displaying our imperfections. We are bombarded by images of naked and semi naked women who are perfect. Smooth, flawless, toned, perfect. Our own bodies are hideous by comparison. And the less we see other 'normal' female bodies, the less normality we have to compare ourselves against.

Original poster
IWillSqueakAgain · 04/02/2021 22:35

I disagree feeling. I only recall changing in a communal changing room in a shop once, I didn’t realise it didn’t have cubicles and I was mortified trying to pull up clothes I didn’t know fitted me or not. And I was young with a near perfect figure at that age, but still felt super uncomfortable and embarrassed. Especially because the whole thing had mirrors all the way around. And the point of shop changing rooms is to look in the mirror at what your trying on.

Just getting dressed in a communal gym changing room into clothes I know fit me fine well when I have zero need to check how they look from every angle in the surrounding mirrors isn’t at all uncomfortable ime.

But again, the communal single sex changing rooms at the gym I use have several other cubicles for women who aren’t comfortable changing communally. So it works for any woman.

OP posts:
feelingverylazytoday · 04/02/2021 22:32

I wonder if our bodies have become so sexualised that we're afraid of being naked among other women
Why do you think we're afraid? Maybe people just want privacy. It's a shame that women have to justify their wish for privacy, to not want to remove their clothes in front of other people or not want to breastfeed in public.

Original poster
IWillSqueakAgain · 04/02/2021 22:30

Cly I don’t think it is an unpopular view judging by what posters have written here. Of course plenty prefer cubicles, but like I said both work well.

I just am glad my instinct that the ‘seperate cubicles is the ideal solution for everyone’ is just the red herring to shut up women who fight for our status quo of single sex spaces.

I also really appreciate the input from those who explained how communal women’s spaces (with seperate cubicles around them) work out much safer for those of us who are the most vulnerable. It helped me clarify my thinking of the risks to cubicle only approach, so now I’m confident how I’d reply to anyone suggesting that irl.

The thing about communal single sex changing rooms with plenty cubicles around them is that it suits all of us women who are happy with communal and those who don’t want to change in front of other women or see us do so (it’s really easy to avoid if your just walking straight to a cubicle, even if they’re getting all oooh naked bodies yucky on here).

The only people it wouldn’t work for it seems are the men.

So that answers that then.

OP posts:
feelingverylazytoday · 04/02/2021 22:26

@IWillSqueakAgain

Oh and to whoever asked I was strictly thinking about gym/swimming changing rooms when posting this. I never even considered shop changing rooms, I haven’t been in one in years as ordering works better as I have two disabled girls to care for, on top of my own disabilities. Literally never entered my head that changing rooms might relate to shop ones. Sorry if that wasn’t 100% clear to anyone.
Well if people hate using communal changing rooms in shops (where they usually keep their underwear on) they're probably going to hate them even more in swimming pools and gyms where they have to get naked.
Original poster
IWillSqueakAgain · 04/02/2021 22:21

Oh and to whoever asked I was strictly thinking about gym/swimming changing rooms when posting this. I never even considered shop changing rooms, I haven’t been in one in years as ordering works better as I have two disabled girls to care for, on top of my own disabilities. Literally never entered my head that changing rooms might relate to shop ones. Sorry if that wasn’t 100% clear to anyone.

OP posts:
Original poster
IWillSqueakAgain · 04/02/2021 22:16

Naked bodies aren’t ugly.

They just see what they are.

The male ones can pose serious risk to us, because men pose a risk to us, and the women’s ones share many of the same experiences mine does so I don’t feel uncomfortable or vulnerable around them if changing etc.

Applying a judgement like ugly to naked bodies seems bizarre. It’s like the opposite end of the spectrum to how highly sexualised women’s bodies are.

I get we apply judgment to our own bodies, however rooted in unhealthy impulses that is, but projecting that onto naked bodies as a whole doesn’t seem healthy at all.

OP posts:
picklemewalnuts · 04/02/2021 22:07

The exposed bodies we see all around us, in magazines, tv, publicly, are all particularly lovely specimens by the standard of the day and further touched up to 'perfection'.

People at the pool are not. They are normal bodies rather than curated, exceptional and probably fake.

That's beside the point. No one has suggested taking away cubicles.

@BitMuch believe it or not, when you tried clothes on in the shops there used to be just one shared room with benches around and mirrors at intervals. It was unsatisfactory- the cool girls hogged the space and the mirrors, intimidating everyone else, and it was painful if you'd picked up something too small or just not flattering.

Original poster
IWillSqueakAgain · 04/02/2021 22:07

The changing cubicles opened straight out onto stone floor a couple of feet from the actual pool. Wrangling two toddlers there simply wouldn’t be safe. Rarely people take young kids there anyways, there’s no shallow end, metal steps are the only way in (so not accessible for anyone in a wheelchair either) and it’s horribly cold most of the time. It has beautiful high ceilings with a glass ceiling/massive sky light or something, so if peak summer it gets beautifully warm mid day, while being surrounded by the draughtiest building possible which is rather lovely combo. But while it’s a gorgeous building it really doesn’t meet most people’s swim needs or changing room needs.

OP posts:
MissBarbary · 04/02/2021 22:01

The normal female body has become invisible

Well aside from what is "normal" by which I assume you mean glamorous /young/Hollywood that is a ridiculous exaggeration. Try looking around you every day, whether clothed in streets, shops or offices or almost naked on beaches or swimming pools -the vast majority of women are "normal"

Indeed given the numbers who are unhealthy overweight having less "normal " bodies might not be a bad thing.

MissBarbary · 04/02/2021 21:55

I wonder if our bodies have become so sexualised that we are afraid of being naked among other women

No. That seems a very odd idea. Most naked bodies , male or female are ugly. I don't want to see them.

ancientgran · 04/02/2021 21:44

@IWillSqueakAgain

There’s a similar pool to that description near me too. It’s lovely. But it’s freezing, the showers are miles away from the changing cubicles, there shared showers only so no chance of a decent wash, the toilets are by the shower so your fucked if you need to pee once your back in the changing cubicle. There’s only one cubicle with baby change factilties. None are wheelchair accessible. It’s not at all easy to take more than one young child there even with a second adult and the hairdryers and mirrors are out in the open, and most just don’t seem to bother using them because of that.

It’s an absolutely beautiful building, but not terribly practical for a lot of other reasons.

At the pool I went to the showers we at either end of the pool, one end male the other end female so you weren't near men when you showered and obviously you kept your swimming costume on, it still felt safe though as there was always a member of staff there. Maybe I had a strong bladder in those days as I can't remember exactly where the toilets were.

Why it it hard to take more than one child? Are the cubicles small, the ones I'm talking about were quite roomy so when I had my first two kids I often took them and sometimes their cousin and it wasn't a problem, there was a bench at the back of the cubicle and I just stood them on it and it was like a production line , dry 1, 2, 3, main clothing 1, 2, 3 then shoes and socks 1, 2 and 3. The poor mother gets dry and dressed.

jj1968 · 04/02/2021 21:24

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Clymene · 04/02/2021 21:01

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Clymene · 04/02/2021 20:59

I totally get what you mean OP. I think seeing women's bodies in use without being sexualised or self-conscious is really very powerful.

However, I see that is a very unpopular view.

I wonder if our bodies have become so sexualised that we are afraid of being naked among other women. Naked women abound in our culture but they are in porn and advertising. The normal female body has become invisible. And the female body no longer belongs to us. We have allowed it to be snatched by the porn makers and pimps. To be commoditised.

That's terribly sad. I think we've lost a connection between women that is absolutely profound.

Unsurprisingly, as far as I know men's communal changing rooms are still very common.