AIBU Any energy for more?

And thanks to you too Garden , Wines , Joody and Erish .

We should ask just the Staniland question itself and finally get an honest answer to it! In one of the ‘Mess we’re in’ episodes Helen explains how she was careful to phrase it.

Yes, the "they just want to pee" derailing there always is is beyond tedious. As Winesalot says, the original question is much harder to wriggle out of without looking like a callous misogynist who doesn't think women and girls deserve privacy and dignity, and should be prepared to face indecent exposure when they use a communal changing room they believe to be female only.

Which is why the TRAs hate it so much.

Good idea @Winesalot. Also wanted to say your contributions to the various threads was mahoosive . @gardenbird48 yes I think it is a great idea I don't have much energy to give to it tonight posting wise, so anyone feels like going for it, I would say go for it.........

Do you believe male born people with a penis should have the right to undress in a communal changing room where teenage girls are undressing?

Because that is quite specific while still allowing people to say, but toilets are cubicles. It short cuts that conversation.

My only comment if you want to start another (and I will continue to join in when I can) is can you add in the first and second post the more specific question that she asked. One mentioning penises and communal changing rooms.

it was amazing - 4000 posts in 2 or 3 days - full of helpful and enlightening content.

I wonder if we will be allowed to play over there again soon

I like your new thread idea Joody - I was wondering if I am brave enough to ask mnhq to try and get Caroline Nokes (Chair of the Women and Equalities Select Committee) on as a guest person and we could put our case to her directly as she seems to be quite biased against women's rights but it would be nice to have some direct contact with her.

Of course she could refuse on the grounds that we are all a load of awful people but that would be an interesting move.

I have no idea how the guest chat things work but thought it might be worth a try? We would also need to be allowed to ask sensible questions, not be heavily censored though.

It was an amazing effort wasn't it? I lost 2 days to it and then had to tear myself away. Fantastic energy from those doing the posting, I wanted to say thanks but then worried missing names of posters out who gave so much energy to it. The Staniland question is very specific. I wonder if a question like "AIBU for thinking women must be able to discuss the impact of gender identity philosophy on our spaces and vocabulary without being called names or threatened?" It is what I want to ask. Is it too much?

Please start thread five .
I have just finished reading all the posts on the previous four ; it has been exhausting but so illuminating .
Thank you Datun , Listening , Langrycleg , Carrots and all the wise , sensible , articulate , informed women who have patiently and steadfastly contributed to this vital debate .
Biological sex matters and has relevance .
Women's spaces are for women .