Radio 4 - not 5

In news that will surprise absolutely no one, McGowan is the recipient of Stonewall's Wokiest Lawyer prize....

www.americanbar.org/news/abanews/aba-news-archives/2018/10/lambda-legal_s-sharon-mcgowan-to-receive-stonewall-award/

Sorry to jusy copy my post from the other thread - but It is just such infuriating madness and I don't get it. There may be some wiggle in other areas of this debate but it is pure madness when it comes to women's sports.

These reports that advantage is decreased by female hormones, it is such rubbish and anyone with eyes can see its not true, but frankly I don't CARE!! female bodies are not just male bodies with lower testosterone, they are different in every way and we have sports for that reason.

Megan rapinho would not be captain of her world Cup beating side if a transwoman comes along, does she know that? What does she think happens to a man's body when they identify as female?

Makes me angry, this does, because more than any other part of this debate its an insult to what our bodies have to go through and what physical sacrifices women make.

The interviews were both superb because Martina came across as such an expert but also so respectful - I did notice she seemed exasperated at times, though. Like, do I really have to explain this?!

I really hate that argument as well - it's just a few athletes, there aren't enough to make a difference..... Well, NOW the law is in place, there will be more, can they really not understand that!?

I really think that it will take an Olympics, maybe the next one or the next one after that, without a single woman on any of the podiums before anyone goes..... Erm.... Oh....

Or a serious injury of a woman / girl on the rugby pitch or boxing ring.

I think highlighting where sports can be mixed sex is a clever strategy because it highlights why they usually aren't while being inclusive.

A-Star for Martina! Yes - good tactic - and the great thing about that is there will need to be an evaluation for each sport to include TW in - which will involve sports where the male advantage is not so obvious from the outset such as Golf, where many might still think mixed-sex is fine, but still fully underlines male advantage at the competitor level - longer arms/greater upper body swing strength etc.

I bet someone is regretting telling Martina to ‘go away and educate yourself’

Finally got round to listening to it.

It was interesting that the TRA didn't just scream bigot about Martina. She was better than a lot of our TRAs, even if her assertions were evidence free.

Nick was superb. I was surprised how much time they gave it.

I love Martina for this. She has no need to do this but instead of driving her away the abuse has just made her committed. I think highlighting where sports can be mixed sex is a clever strategy because it highlights why they usually aren't while being inclusive.

Is this a good time to share this?

For those who haven't seen it, it compares the times /distances of high school boys to Olympic Women's finalists.

boysvswomen.com/#/

Martina was great. It's just so awful that women and girls are having to use so, so much of our precious time and energy defending the already proven and obvious.

It's exactly like being in an abusive relationship. Walking on eggshells. Tick ✅ .
Being gaslighted. Tick ✅ .
Subject to constant DARVO. Tick ✅
Changing goalposts. Tick ✅
Eroding boundaries. Tick ✅
Nothing is ever fucking good enough. Tick ✅

Deep breaths.

prisencolin as we know, it is entirely possible that Jane Torvill is trans because we must not assume gender.

I'm willing to lay money and a couple of my kids down in a bet that I know which sex Jane Torvill is, though.

And she mentioned "a few" males in elite women's sport.

I don't understand this argument at all. Why not just allow a few men in women's sports. And a few adults in children's sports. And a few drugs cheats in all sports.

What's the point in drawing up rules which aim to be fair then letting a few men ignore them?

.. James Torvill..

Oh no, what are you telling us?

Women need sporting role models.

Most of us don't exercise enough - seeing women do amazing athletic feats is inspiring.

I am less likely to have taken up ice skating as a 12 year old if Christopher Dean did the Bolero with a trans woman. I wouldn't have seen myself as having a chance of emulating what James Torvill did on the ice.

McGowan was terrible. She kept talking about high school sports - but if I understand correctly, high school sports in the US is commonly connected to college scholarships (which in turn leads to elite sports)?

And she mentioned "a few" males in elite women's sport. It only takes three in one Olympic event to lock women out of the medals entirely.

The "It's not Wimbledon" was really bloody rude.

I don't care if it's Wimbledon or junior parkrun. Boys and girls have different abilities. Imagine 1st girl (11-14yrs group iirc) at junior parkrun not getting placed because three males decided to opt in as females.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000rvjm

@mindtheclegs

'We are not talking about Wimbledon' - I thought this was incredibly dismissive of the thousands of women who compete in sports at all levels. It might not be international competition level but it matters to the women taking part, and for many it is a stepping stone to higher competition. Not to mention that this isn't just about fairness, it's about safety too. But the rights of women to participate safely and fairly in sport don't matter as much as how someone feels about it?

For kids a sports day can be their Olympics.

I know there is a need to balance fun and competition

but one message for the boys and another for the girls is not acceptable.

Oh my that phrase stood out to me too - 'we are not talking Wimbledon...'

and why are they not talking about Wimbledon?

If it's appropriate for kids then it is for all ages and levels.

Talk. About. Wimbledon. (You fucking cowards.)

Can anyone direct me to how to I can listen to this later?

Martina was great. Hope there will be other coverage too. 100 days takes us up to Easter pretty much.

Martina was great-we have 100 days until Bidens EO comes into effect-there is time to turn this around.

To get to Wimbledon, kids need to start at grass roots! How many girls will miss out on university scholarships and not be able to train enough or have the sponsorship money to get to the competitions that lead to Wimbledon?

Jeez. McGowan (in the 6:50) interview described Martina's evidence-based claims as a false narrative. How this is different from Trump's cry of "fake news" when the facts were inconvenient escapes me.

Oh my that phrase stood out to me too - 'we are not talking Wimbledon...'
Even more important then that we get this right! Grass roots sport is where most girls and young women compete. Let's not spoil it for them! It was only in the 1970s let's not forget that women were allowed to run marathons