Humza Yousaf and Scottish Hate Crime Bill

I think anyone dependent on Mornington Crescent would probably find MN the only source of support to break their addiction tbf

Recognising when they're involved in a situation with a person who constantly changes the rules as the central aim is that their partner is never fully able to understand what is going on, is coerced into tacitly accepting by engagement that their partner sets terms and they don't, and is always vulnerable to their control is sadly a well-known female experience. Females having pattern recognition isn't a hate crime, and it's not surprising that they recognise this behaviour in political lobbies who change the rules and give conflicting information at all times, where it's impossible to make logical sense of what is going on.

If it feels like Mornington Crescent and make about as much sense, females are going to get pissed off and play Mornington Crescent and at least have some fun.

Indeed fuck off and go away sums it up

If @MaudTheInvincible is correct with her links, the power happening behind the scenes, @Whatsnewpussyhat, may be very big indeed.

I simply don't understand why this is still being pushed ahead. This man who was the transport minister and has no legal background, is now being allowed to push these ridiculous, dangerous laws.

The reaction from everyone except shouty activists on Twitter is fuck off and don't be so stupid.

Not RTFT - (not all anyhow) - apologies if already posted - a useful take on the shitshow:

www.nationalreview.com/2021/02/scotlands-government-slashes-away-at-liberty/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Removal of Privacy
Achieving loss of ability to evaluate logically by preventing private contemplation

Not allowing discussion of trans ideology in your own home then Humza?

Which side has the obscure doctrines?

Which side refuses to debate the truth of their position?

Which side is changing away from what pretty much everyone believed 5 minutes ago? (And it's not like they can appeal to scientific advancement; it's rather a matter of political fashion.)

The Cult Information Centre (CIC) defines a cult as a group having all of the following five characteristics

In my early 20's I became involved with an evangelical Christian group.

On one hand the experience of being 'born again' was a wonderful and seemingly healing experience. I had truly seen the light and was bathed in its beauty and purity.

On the other hand group conformity in the human church was paramount. There were leaders. Men who interceded between you and God. Who interpreted the word of God according to their own prejudice. At bible weeks people would turn to the pastor on stage, rather than to the quiet of their own soul, when looking for instruction or guidance.

Any secrets or non-conforming aspects of oneself where to be cast out or prayed over. The world, and the people beyond the church ( even one's own family or former friends) was irredeemably fallen and in need if rescue, and the devil taunted and tested the faithful continually. The world was black and white, with no shades of grey.

Only commitment to, and certainty of, the gospel could guarantee one's salvation. When you conformed to the group dynamic you were supported and it felt like family; but when you questioned anything that was seen as a fundamental article of faith you would be cast out and seen as back-slidden or fallen.

Leaving such a community can be tough, because you are all alone. You have to recreate a whole new world view and a fresh guiding moral philosophy from scratch.

Games
Inducing dependence on the group by introducing games with obscure rules.

There may be a case for this on MN. There was a recent thread that involved Mornington Crescent, afair.

This, from the same website, is also useful, on Mind Control:

cultinformation.org.uk/question_what-is-mind-control.html

Mind Control techniques include:

Hypnosis
Inducing a state of high suggestibility by hypnosis, often thinly disguised as relaxation or meditation.

Peer Group Pressure
Suppressing doubt and resistance to new ideas by exploiting the need to belong.

Love Bombing
Creating a sense of family and belonging through hugging, kissing, touching and flattery.

Rejection of Old Values
Accelerating acceptance of new life style by constantly denouncing former values and beliefs.

Confusing Doctrine
Encouraging blind acceptance and rejection of logic through complex lectures on an incomprehensible doctrine.

Metacommunication
Implanting subliminal messages by stressing certain key words or phrases in long, confusing lectures.

Removal of Privacy
Achieving loss of ability to evaluate logically by preventing private contemplation.

Time Sense Deprivation
Destroying ability to evaluate information, personal reactions, and body functions in relation to passage of time by removing all clocks and watches.

Disinhibition
Encouraging child-like obedience by orchestrating child-like behaviour.

Uncompromising Rules
Inducing regression and disorientation by soliciting agreement to seemingly simple rules which regulate mealtimes, bathroom breaks and use of medications.

Verbal Abuse
Desensitizing through bombardment with foul and abusive language.

Sleep Deprivation and Fatigue
Creating disorientation and vulnerability by prolonging mental an physical activity and withholding adequate rest and sleep.

Dress Codes
Removing individuality by demanding conformity to the group dress code.

Chanting and Singing
Eliminating non-cult ideas through prolonged group repetition of mind-narrowing chants or phrases.

Confession
Encouraging the destruction of individual ego through confession of personal weaknesses and innermost feelings of doubt.

Financial Commitment
Achieving increased dependence on the group by burning bridges to the past, through the donation of assets.

Finger Pointing
Creating a false sense of righteousness by pointing to the shortcomings of the outside world and other cults.

Flaunting Hierarchy
Promoting acceptance of cult authority by promising advancement, power and salvation.

Isolation
Inducing loss of reality by physical separation from family, friends, society and rational references.

Controlled Approval
Maintaining vulnerability and confusion by alternately rewarding and punishing similar actions.

Change of Diet
Creating disorientation and increased susceptibility to emotional arousal by depriving the nervous system of necessary nutrients through the use of special diets and/or fasting.

Games
Inducing dependence on the group by introducing games with obscure rules.

No Questions
Accomplishing automatic acceptance of beliefs by discouraging questions.

Guilt
Reinforcing the need for salvation by exaggerating the sins of the former lifestyles.

Fear
Maintaining loyalty and obedience to the group by threatening soul, life or limb for the slightest negative thought, word or deed.

Replacement of Relationships
Destroying pre-cult families by arranging cult marriages and families.

Some of the above techniques used in isolation are not necessarily harmful in and of themselves. However, in a psychologically coercive cult environment, they are usually used en masse, in extreme ways and for prolonged periods of time.

Equality of condition, though it is certainly a basic requirement for justice, is nevertheless among the greatest and most uncertain ventures of modern mankind. The more equal conditions are, the less explanation there is for the differences that actually exist between people; and thus all the more unequal do individuals and groups become

The most striking difference between ancient and modern sophists is that the ancients were satisfied with a passing victory of the argument at the expense of truth, whereas the moderns want a more lasting victory at the expense of reality

Terror becomes total when it becomes independent of all opposition; it rules supreme when nobody any longer stands in its way. If lawfulness is the essence of non-tyrannical government and lawlessness is the essence of tyranny, then terror is the essence of totalitarian domination

Hannah Arendt ( The Origins of Totalitarianism)

This is the most useful definition I've found, I think - it details the mechanisms behind most features (taken from the CIC website):

The Cult Information Centre (CIC) defines a cult as a group having all of the following five characteristics:

It uses psychological coercion to recruit, indoctrinate and retain its members
It forms an elitist totalitarian society.
Its founder leader is self-appointed, dogmatic, messianic, not accountable and has charisma.
It believes the end justifies the means in order to solicit funds and recruit people.
Its wealth does not benefit its members or society.

Mumsnet doesn’t have a party training college unlike the SNP

The thing about that word is that there's an actual definition and list of characteristics, such as not being allowed to leave, shunning for going even slightly off message, that kind of thing. There is a set list, this is a testable thing.

Words don't just mean whatever you'd like them to mean. It's like a child, throwing around a word that sounds powerful in the hope of getting their own way.

Yeah I think the best of vipers failed to get the memo about the importance of love bombing. Especially the denizens of AIBU.

Sincere apologies, I have searched for the cult discussion in said MPs tweets and I think I have muddled up a random tweeter in among the MPs tweets calling MN a cult. So, it wasn't an MP. My mistake.

Interesting to search for 'mumsnet cult' on Twitter, though. Seems to be quite a common thing to say.

FWIW cults and cultish behaviour are common human tendencies and many groups display some of the patterns of cults. MN really doesn't, as far as I can see. (There's far too little grooming and love-bombing, imo, we could really do with a lot more of that and more cake recipes, too.)

I do wish we could discuss it openly as its fascinating, instructive and useful information to know.

1. “Caution in handling generally accepted opinions that claim to explain whole trends of history is especially important for the historian of modern times, because the last century has produced an abundance of ideologies that pretend to be keys to history but are actually nothing but desperate efforts to escape responsibility^”

1. “One of the greatest advantages of the totalitarian elites of the twenties and thirties was to turn any statement of fact into a question of motive”

1. “There is hardly a better way to avoid discussion than by releasing an argument from the control of the present and by saying that only the future will reveal its merits”

1. “True goal of totalitarian propaganda is not persuasion, but organisation of the polity. ... What convinces masses are not facts, and not even invented facts, but only the consistency of the system of which they are presumably part”

( Hannah Arendt - The Origins of Totalitarianism)

@Mumofgirlswholiketoplaywithmud
Things have gone further with legislation in Ireland
In what way? Again, no one needs to answer me, as I am playing catch-up and dont want to go off on a side issue.

You find that "co-exist", "unity" "togetherness" type words, are only used by a person to mean, "go their way". If you were to try saying, ok, we will all unite going in the opposite direction to what they mean, it just wouldnt happen.

"If Liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear"

"Will the man in the street ever feel that freedom of the mind is as important and as much in need of being defended as his daily bread"

(George Orwell - On Freedom)

The problem is that there is now an utter conflation of critique and analysis, with hatred. And, from creating equal rights, a hierarchy of rights is being created instead; with some groups privileged over others.

True to the left these privileged groups are perceived as being the victims, and those being suppressed seen as the oppressors. Who would have thought that the hard won rights of women, and their struggles for dignity and safe spaces, for equality in sporting provision would come to be seen as oppressive to others.

The left stands against colonisation and imperialism, and yet what we now witness is the attempt to completely appropriate and colonise what belongs to women. And furthermore to prevent women from organising and speaking to protect their rights and spaces.

People are being told there is no conflict of rights; that we can all co-exist in some utopian fantasy where biological, and other, differences are no longer real or relevant. The problem is that this is being enforced by decree, and not by consent. That is the very definition of colonisation and imperialism.

Yes I went looking for the mumsnet reference and couldn't find, I presume twitter

Also that I see SNP MPs are now accusing Mumsnet of being one of the Things we Cannot Name. It's pretty pathetic how swift and total the reversals are. But again, informative

Have you got any links?

@theskyispink yes, please, thank you.

Jim Sillars' comment in the Times today:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/06a378d8-6724-11eb-908c-00b0fcb974f6?shareToken=ba6b19b331e790fc197ab2cc527f440f