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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Oh god, Labour again.

143 replies

fakenina · 28/01/2021 16:02

They are really determined to jump the shark on this, arn't they Sad

labour.org.uk/about/how-we-work/nec-statement-women-shortlists-womens-officers-minimum-quotas-women/

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MissBarbary · 31/01/2021 18:36

@DdraigGoch

Labour had the first female Home Secretary in Jacqui Smith- the Tories have had Theresa May, Amber Rudd and Pritti Patel. May was , I think, the longest serving Home Secretary apart from Alan Johnston. There's never been a female Chancellor and I don't have time tonight to check the other Great Offices of State. *@MissBarbary* it would have taken virtually no time at all. There has only ever been one female Foreign Secretary - Margaret Beckett.
Oh bore off. I can't be bothered checking exactly but I know it was 3 or 4 in the morning I posted that. So sorry if my need for sleep caused you a problem.
DaisiesandButtercups · 31/01/2021 14:18

Yuddiesorno yes SDP look good on women’s rights. I have never seen them on the ballot in my area. I plan to look out for them though.

bellinisurge · 31/01/2021 13:28

But how do we know Tony Blair or Harold Wilson didn't "feel female" and therefore were female.Grin

DdraigGoch · 31/01/2021 13:06

Labour had the first female Home Secretary in Jacqui Smith- the Tories have had Theresa May, Amber Rudd and Pritti Patel. May was , I think, the longest serving Home Secretary apart from Alan Johnston. There's never been a female Chancellor and I don't have time tonight to check the other Great Offices of State.
@MissBarbary it would have taken virtually no time at all. There has only ever been one female Foreign Secretary - Margaret Beckett.

MissBarbary · 31/01/2021 01:34

@Anurulz

So the "conservative" parties like the women barefoot, pregnant in the kitchen and the "progressive" prefer to erase women altogether.. fun times we live in.. when women seem to have to justify being women altogether and having lives..
That sort of hyperbole really does not help the "gender critical" cause.
TheWordWomanIsTaken · 31/01/2021 00:06

This reply has been deleted

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bourbonne · 30/01/2021 22:08

@Anurulz

So the "conservative" parties like the women barefoot, pregnant in the kitchen and the "progressive" prefer to erase women altogether.. fun times we live in.. when women seem to have to justify being women altogether and having lives..
I think the Conservative party want us out at work all hours of the day.
Anurulz · 30/01/2021 22:00

So the "conservative" parties like the women barefoot, pregnant in the kitchen and the "progressive" prefer to erase women altogether.. fun times we live in.. when women seem to have to justify being women altogether and having lives..

howard97A · 30/01/2021 19:31

@CharlieParley
For me the use of scare quotes does indicatge a rejection of the transactivist meaning of the word, but maybe others don’t see it that way?

gardenbird48 · 30/01/2021 18:59

@RozWatching

what is all this about it being an old statement mistakenly reposted

It's nonsense. Although I suppose you could say that it was 'mistakenly' reposted in December 2019 after they took it down briefly while Labour was trying to sell the not very convincing 'self ID + single-sex exemptions' manifesto commitment.

if you look at the source for that particular part of the page, it was last edited in Oct 20 so I call bs on 'it was a mistake'.
RozWatching · 30/01/2021 18:39

what is all this about it being an old statement mistakenly reposted

It's nonsense. Although I suppose you could say that it was 'mistakenly' reposted in December 2019 after they took it down briefly while Labour was trying to sell the not very convincing 'self ID + single-sex exemptions' manifesto commitment.

Yuddiesorno · 30/01/2021 18:35

Have been lurking on these threads for a while as also don't have a clue who I would vote for at the moment and can't really believe that I would have ever entertained the idea of voting Tory.

Just out of interest has anyone seen the "Transgender and Biological Based sex rights" policy on the SDP website? Only asking because I read something about it a few weeks ago in the Times (I think) and reading this thread brought it to mind. I must admit to thinking that the SDP were long gone and I haven't a clue about the rest of the policies as I haven't waded through them, as yet, and also don't know whether they actually have any candidates.

Just wondering if any of you have heard about their stance on this issue and anything else about them really? Are they a credible alternative?

YourWurstNightmare · 30/01/2021 18:00

My neighbour is from a working class, pro-union, always-voted-Labour family. She's not overly political but reads the important stuff. She feels like Labour took her vote - and her family's - for granted. She feels like they think she's 'thick', that she won't notice the insane focus on gender ideology.

Her whole family vote Tory now, even though they disagree with a lot of their policies. Until Labour see this, they aren't going to get voters like her back.

merrymouse · 30/01/2021 17:34

To be fair, that is the Irish Labour Party.

gardenbird48 · 30/01/2021 16:55

The Labour Party
@labour
Hundreds of people miss school everyday due to period poverty and period shame

What about this lovely bit of erasure for girls? my bold)
twitter.com/labour/status/1355200972465827843

CharlieParley · 30/01/2021 16:55

@howard97A

… I refuse to type the word transwoman with a space. They are not a fucking type of woman.

Perhaps we should just write it as “transwoman”?

Although that would at least be correct from a grammar point of view, the word still confuses many people who understand it to refer to a female who identifies as trans.

I stopped using the word more than a year ago and now only refer to males who identify as trans here on MN and as men elsewhere. It tends to make it much easier to explain the issues, too.

But more important than that, to me, is that I am no longer willing to signal even a hint of buying into the ideology by using its terminology. If a part of the word is woman I only use it if it refers to women.

SirVixofVixHall · 30/01/2021 16:25

I have never voted Tory but with the Plaid treatment of Helen Mary Jones and this from Labour I may break the habits of a lifetime. I can’t vote Green either !
Fiasco.

stumbledin · 30/01/2021 16:21

Sorry to ask but am now confused!

The statement still seems to be on the web site. So what is all this about it being an old statement mistakenly reposted.

The statement clearly accepts self defining transwomen as women, and still says it wants to reform the GRA.

So is this the current Labour Police.

and ...

Love the tweet info. It is this type of interparty infighting that means so many people dont get involved in party politics.

But in this instance is the current pro trans sub group is prot trans enough what do you need to do and say to be approved for the new sub group.

Funny how the msm who loved to shout about any Labour infighting when it was Corbyn are being so discreet about reporting anything at all about Labour. You might even think the UK doesn't have an official opposition party. Hmm

fakenina · 30/01/2021 13:33

@Imnobody4

Just seen this on Twitter from Lesbian Labour LGBT+ Labour had a big fall out last week and Heather Peto (who had been co chair) did a flounce and sets up Labour Trans Equality saying LGBT+ was transphobic? The Trans Group demand recognition from the Labour Party? *@LesbianLabour* will continue to speak for Lesbians.
Blimy, how extreme must they be if they consider LGBT+ Labour transphobic.

LGBT+ Labour are fanatical about TWAW, harrassing anyone who even looks like they might disagree.

This new group must be off the scale.

Btw, that individual in question been accused of harrassing women left right and center, so I wonder if they jumped before they were pushed? and the transphobia accusation is yet again to cover for getting cought out harrassing women.

OP posts:
Imnobody4 · 30/01/2021 13:07

Just seen this on Twitter from Lesbian Labour
LGBT+ Labour had a big fall out last week and Heather Peto (who had been co chair) did a flounce and sets up Labour Trans Equality saying LGBT+ was transphobic? The Trans Group demand recognition from the Labour Party? @LesbianLabour will continue to speak for Lesbians.

howard97A · 30/01/2021 13:00

… I refuse to type the word transwoman with a space. They are not a fucking type of woman.

Perhaps we should just write it as “transwoman”?

TheWordWomanIsTaken · 30/01/2021 11:17

@Justhadathought

Labour has a proud record of championing equality for women of all backgrounds, including BAME women, LGBT+ women, disabled women and working class women

They've fallen into that habit that TRA activists have of labelling working class, disabled, black women as somehow not primarily women - but as types of women. We are supposed to believe that biological males can be just another type of woman.

Exactly this - same with the use of the word cis. That we are types of women with adjectives to describe us. This is the exact reason I refuse to type the word transwoman with a space. They are not a fucking type of woman.
bellinisurge · 29/01/2021 22:08

Someone from my MP's office emailed me back with a ... "what statement do you mean ?" I found it online in moments and emailed it back.
He'll get back to me.

ChestnutStuffing · 29/01/2021 21:27

They fail to consider or address the underlying causes as to why women aren't becoming MPs. In other words, AWS tackle the symptoms, not the cause. This has been proven by the inclusion of mtf transitioners onto the shortlists. Many of the reasons why women might find it difficult to become an MP (esp anything to do with childcare) would almost not apply to an mtf transitioner. The fact that Labour don't seem to understand why AWS exist is concerning.

One possibility is that part of the reason for women not becoming involved is that they mistakenly think the work will not be compatible with parts of their lives like mothering. That might go some way to explaining why they were successful at increasing numbers, since as you say they don't change the basic situation.

If so, it might be possible to achieve more participation in other ways, for example I've seen places where they ran seminars for women who might be interested in getting involved, which mainly talked about the practical issues of political involvement.

On the other hand, I sometimes wonder if AWS might not mean people go out of their way to find women who will agree to stand, even if the women are sometimes not the highest caliber, because there are still many who have the various barriers that tend to affect women in place.

RozWatching · 29/01/2021 21:00

WPUK said:

"We have been assured that LP NEC statement in circulation is not current policy. It has been replaced by the manifesto of 2019 which is clear: “Ensure that the single-sex-based exemptions contained in the Equality Act 2010 are understood and fully enforced in service provision".

"We are not clear how this old statement has reappeared on the LP website but we understand it will be corrected."

It's still up.
Are they even talking about the same thing? The current statement with the same wording about 'self-identifying' women appears to have been on the website since at least October 2019 except for a brief period during the 2019 election campaign.