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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Another case against the Tavistock

29 replies

Thisbetheday · 28/01/2021 09:42

There is a new case against the Tavi - it is a challenge to the guidelines that GIDS are basing their practice on.

Basically WPATH has shaped the clinical practice and WPATH (an activist group) advocate against anything other than affirmation.

I'm not allowed to post the Crowdfunder link

OP posts:
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hoodathunkit · 23/02/2021 10:16

No other patient population dictates the terms of their care.

I believe that a significant part of our current problem lies in the fact that swathes of extremely vulnerable people, children and adults, many who are neuro-diverse / neuro-atypical, mentally very unwell or otherwise vulnerable have been "empowered" to dictate what kind of services they would like, as if they were consumers selecting the brand of food they prefer from a supermarket.

This has clearly happened in the case of many people who identify as trans but has also happened in the case of many extremely mentally unwell people who have influenced public money to be spent on yoga, mindfulness and quack therapies (many of which are delivered by cults).

Discourses around "empowerment" and "patient choice" have been misused to divert public finding towards charlatans, grifters and psychopaths who are only to happy to conduct harmful experiments on children and vulnerable adults.

The issue of the BMA’s strange shift from evidence based skepticism to snake oil promotion was covered in the excellent, highly recommended 1996 BBC documentary series Strange Days featuring the rationalist, skeptical narrator / presenter Catherine Bennett

The episode on alternative therapies can be seen here and is worth watching in its entirety, however, for those pushed for time the highly relevant part is at 8.08 when Bennett questions where the public can go to obtain proper medical advice.

Bennett questions why the BMA changed its 1986 dismissal of so called alternative medicine as primitive beliefs and outmoded practices, almost all without basis to a 1992 report “Complementary Medicine; new approaches to good practice” in which alternative therapies were described as complementary medicine and deemed worthy of research and respect.

at 8.42 Bennett interviews the disgraced and extremely controversial figure, the then Head Of Ethics of the BMA, Dr Fleur Fisher, about how this change could have happened.

Dr Fleur Fisher’s response is absolutely fascinating and highly relevant to this issue.

She says Quite frankly, I think the main driver here has been the development of a much more consumer awareness in the NHS. Patients are consumers of healthcare and they have been actually voting with their feet and they’ve been going to osteopaths, chiropractors, homeopathy, acupuncture…

Central to this issue is the extent to which the “empowerment” of patients to choose the treatments that they prefer has been used as a Trojan horse divert precious public funding, including NHS resources, away from where it is needed and into the coffers of mountebanks, charlatans, grifters and criminals.

Most patients do not know what their best treatment options are. Training to be a medical doctor takes many years and most patients have only a rudimentary grasp of medicine. Fake information about medicine is rampant across social media and fake news websites and publications.

When we look at mental health the issue is even more concerning with many unproven therapies provided on the NHS and many properly trained and accredited NHS psychiatrists, psychologists and psychotherapists promoting pseudoscientific charlatanry such as “energy therapy”, EMDR and NLP.

The advent of the “wellness” industry has complicated things further.

The point that I am making is that the outrageous experimentation on children as part of GIDS is just one very visible pimple on the arse of a much larger beast.

Vulnerable people of all ages are being harmed physically and emotionally by being provided with treatments that they demand, even if such treatments are unproven, experimental and dangerous.

WorkingItOutAsIGo · 23/02/2021 09:52

Thanks for the nudge! Off to the garden now.

highame · 23/02/2021 08:33

Just thought I'd bump this, as only a couple of days to go and still needs some digging

So many cases, needing gardening care but the more we have, the more inroads we make.

TroublesomeTownHouse · 29/01/2021 14:38

So this new one is not the same as one Kiera was going to bring?

Looks great to me as it is addressing the role and influence of WPATH. The whole issue of activists capturing institutions from police to the CPS to schools is amazing really as it's happened so stealthily and so fast.

highame · 29/01/2021 09:04

This case is to challenge the existence of 'gender identity' in the Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) on Conversion Therapy document. This current document prevents clinicians from helping children suffering from gender dysphoria to be at ease in their sex.

This is Keira's case that has been put on hold and waiting for the results of the Cass review. The other case is now in appeal. Maybe that's what is being said upthread, but was getting confused so have gone back to check

This is the one going through appeal I'm an ex patient of Gender Identity Clinics where I was prescribed dangerous, experimental drugs and received a double mastectomy procedure. I am fighting to stop this from happening to minors.

fastwigglylines · 28/01/2021 23:28

@Thisbetheday

I don't think Keira could bring a similar case because she is no longer being treated by the Tavi.

I suppose its a timing thing - the Cass review will take quite a while.

I'm not sure that's it, as Keira's case was also about Mrs A, the mother of a 15 year old on the waiting list for GIDS.

Were Keira and co actually made to withdraw or did they lawyers just advise them to? Perhaps these lawyers just have a different opinion about what's possible / worthwhile taking a punt on?

nothingcomestonothing · 28/01/2021 21:34

Happily contributed to this, asking a court to look at what the guidance is, and how it was arrived at, seems an excellent idea to me.

highame · 28/01/2021 21:07

Challenge to guidelines that shaped clinical practices

So really I think the difference is that Mrs Y wants JR to look at how things came about, so in effect, how was this organisation captured

My view, anyone else?

Thisbetheday · 28/01/2021 20:41

I don't think Keira could bring a similar case because she is no longer being treated by the Tavi.

I suppose its a timing thing - the Cass review will take quite a while.

OP posts:
AnotherLass · 28/01/2021 20:36

Are there any lawyers about? I'm surprised that this would work given that I thought that Keira had a somewhat similar case going, and she had to pull it because the Cass review would mean that it would fail. Why is this one different?

ChattyLion · 28/01/2021 19:42

No other patient population dictates the terms of their care.

Because the other populations don’t have male sexual entitlement behind them

Manderleyagain · 28/01/2021 19:37

I picked up that Jr is refused if the thing being challenged is under review. I wonder if the cass review will be considered too close to allow the Jr?

It would be good to have all the evidence & everything considered by a dispassionate Court.

I saw it shared by a Canadian account, but unless I've missed it it hasn't been promoted by the UK orgs that are campaigning around this, which makes me think it hasn't come about that way. Not that it has to - Mrs y is entitled to challenge on her own obvs.

NorthernIrishFeminist · 28/01/2021 19:33

Regular reminder to untick the box for CrowdJustice contribution as protest against what they did to Allison Bailey’s appeal

Fallingirl · 28/01/2021 19:19

It would be bloody fantastic if a court took a good long look at WPATH.

highame · 28/01/2021 12:09

This looks like an incredibly good case in that it asks the JR to look at WPATH and as far as I know, so many countries are implementing their guidance without recognising their lack of medical expertise

Weatherwarning · 28/01/2021 12:03

Got it, thanks.

DisappearingGirl · 28/01/2021 12:00

@Weatherwarning

I can't find this on crowd funder. I have typed in "Challenge to guidelines that shape clinical practice at GIDS" but no results keeps showing up.
Try crowd justice
Weatherwarning · 28/01/2021 11:53

I can't find this on crowd funder. I have typed in
"Challenge to guidelines that shape clinical practice at GIDS"
but no results keeps showing up.

fakenina · 28/01/2021 11:02

@persistentwoman

What other patient population has medical practice dictated by lobby groups, has experimental medication used on them that in some cases leads to sterility and negative impacts on many aspects of human development all before the patient is able to give informed consent (according the the High Court) ?

Quite right that all this is being tested in the courts.

Hopefully those schools and adult organisations promoting the transitioning of children in secret from their parents will be next on the list for the court's attention.

I bloody hope so.
ethelredonagoodday · 28/01/2021 10:51

@vivariumvivariumsvivaria

No other patient population dictates the terms of their care.

It's fascinating/horrifying

Agree entirely.
persistentwoman · 28/01/2021 10:39

What other patient population has medical practice dictated by lobby groups, has experimental medication used on them that in some cases leads to sterility and negative impacts on many aspects of human development all before the patient is able to give informed consent (according the the High Court) ?

Quite right that all this is being tested in the courts.

Hopefully those schools and adult organisations promoting the transitioning of children in secret from their parents will be next on the list for the court's attention.

vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 28/01/2021 10:30

No other patient population dictates the terms of their care.

It's fascinating/horrifying

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 28/01/2021 10:26

Would those be the WPATH Standards of Care that aren't actually standards of care, but just guidelines?

archive.vn/YdSLv

OvaHere · 28/01/2021 10:05

Thanks for posting. They are coming in fast now.

I think we are up to four cases against the Tavistock - Keira/Mrs A, Sonia Appleby, David Bell and now Mrs Y.

ArabellaScott · 28/01/2021 09:53

'Mum of a 16 year old being treated at the Tavistock Clinic.

I am the mum of a 16-year-old girl who is currently being seen by the Tavistock clinic. Having learned about being trans on the Internet she identifies as a boy and says she wishes to medically transition. From the very first interactions with the clinic, our daughter’s belief that she is a boy has been affirmed. She has a diagnosis of autism and was (before coming out as trans) exploring her sexuality and romantic attraction to girls. It seems possible that these things may be contributing to her current feelings about gender but I don’t believe that the clinic is exploring them in any depth. Rather, it feels they are leading us on a pathway to medical transition. Our worry is that by simply continuing to affirm her chosen identity rather than adopting a more watchful, waiting and curiously questioning approach, the medical pathway becomes the most likely outcome for her

Summary

I am concerned that the guidelines that shape clinical practice at GIDS have been shaped by activism rather than by independent evidence based review. This means that a child’s belief in their gender identity is positively affirmed without question making it more likely they will embark on risky experimental medical treatment that has irreversible lifelong consequences.

Psychological and therapeutic approaches that help children live at ease in their natal sex need to be freed from political pressure so the right support can be given without fear of accusations of unethical treatment or conversion therapy. '