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Original poster

Nicola Sturgeon throws Joanna Cherry under the bus

313 replies

Whatdoyoudowhendemocracyfails · 27/01/2021 21:05

twitter.com/nicolasturgeon/status/1354521063502336001?s=21

Personal statement condemning transphobia in response to the number of young members leaving and giving this as their reason.

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Thread gallery
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Gibbonsgibbonsgibbons · 28/01/2021 13:07

Thanks Igneococcus

Their resignations followed the decision of Humza Yousaf, the justice secretary, to table an amendment to the hate crime bill, enabling trans campaigners to be challenged in debate without their critics facing the threat of arrest for a hate crime.
Yep resigning because of proposals that people shouldn’t be arrested for stating facts Confused

MissBarbary · 28/01/2021 13:02

You (general you) call trans activists deluded and delusional and worse. I think following the separatist mantra is as deluded and dependent on blind faith as anything in trans rights.

I think trying to separate this one narrow issue , which clearly concerns you and clearly is inextricably tied to separatist policies and at the forefront of policies being pushed by the SNP, from separatism is bizarre. If you (general you) vote for separatism you (general you) are going to get this too.

Original poster
Whatdoyoudowhendemocracyfails · 28/01/2021 12:27

I mean - it’s not AIBU, it’s bloody rude to call participants in this discussion “deluded separatists.”

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BuffysBigSister · 28/01/2021 12:25

@BlackForestCake

BuffysBigSister you can vote for the ISP. They are female led and support women. Better than not voting even if they don't get a seat.
I don't know much about them but will do some reading. I like my local MSP and MP (both SNP). They've not been vocal on this issue yet and I don't think I can face checking today if they have also gone down in my estimation.
Original poster
Whatdoyoudowhendemocracyfails · 28/01/2021 12:25

@Babdoc

Sadly true, MissBarbary. The SNP want “freedom” from the UK in order to shackle themselves to Brussels, lose fishing rights over their own waters, and suffer the imposition of the Euro. Looking at the total mess the EU has made of covid vaccination, compared to the brilliant UK rollout (3rd fastest in the world) doesn’t give one confidence in their choice!
This thread is in FWR because it’s about a female party leader failing to support a gender critical colleague who has tried to defend women’s sex based rights.

Strident opinions about independence aren’t relevant here.

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HubertHerbert · 28/01/2021 12:20

I agree with your assessment of Sturgeon

Original poster
Whatdoyoudowhendemocracyfails · 28/01/2021 12:19

*Salmond. Oh for an edit button.

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Original poster
Whatdoyoudowhendemocracyfails · 28/01/2021 12:19

“I mean, NS doesn't really give much of a fuck about nonbinary rights, let's not kid ourselves. NS wants independence”

I’m becoming persuaded by the arguments from commentators like Craig Murray and Wings that Nicola Sturgeon actually doesn’t want independence - and that this is the issue at the heart of the war on Alex Salmon and Cherry, who is aligned with Salmond and is backing the current legal hearing to establish whether a S30 order is the only route to a legitimate referendum.

I’d much rather see Cherry in charge of the party.

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HubertHerbert · 28/01/2021 12:15

I'm in a rural community too, West Coast, but I wasn't born for another decade after Margots section, I suppose labels endure but I think tartan tories were mostly from their obscurity back in the 50s early 60s - I do think that tag may have clung on as a term of denigration among unionists, calling someone a tory is not a term of endearment in Scotland!

ArabellaScott · 28/01/2021 12:04

We have regained our fishing rights, and lost the markets to sell them!

Wbeezer · 28/01/2021 12:03

What kind of jobs are people in where they can just shrug of the threat of a decade of austerity? I know Scotland has a very high proportion of public sector jobs and people in those may feel safer than those in other sectors but I think they are naive to think that there won't be cuts that affect them. Brexit has already slashed our business's turnover, its made me very wary as I don't trust the current encumbents with negotiating anything remotely complicated.
But if a digression there...
I have good friends who were in the SWP at college who are now sensible, young voters change their minds, i dont think chasing them is a good look, lots of the noisiest are students who haven't been brought up here and won't even stay in Scotland long term.

Babdoc · 28/01/2021 12:02

Sadly true, MissBarbary.
The SNP want “freedom” from the UK in order to shackle themselves to Brussels, lose fishing rights over their own waters, and suffer the imposition of the Euro. Looking at the total mess the EU has made of covid vaccination, compared to the brilliant UK rollout (3rd fastest in the world) doesn’t give one confidence in their choice!

ArabellaScott · 28/01/2021 12:01

I liked how Nicola was performing as leader. What's important for me is what she didn't say last night: not a word of support for women suffering abuse on social media for defending their sex-based rights. Nothing. My opinion of her has taken a real hit. I saw her interview Chimamanda Ngozie at the Book Fest a few years ago and I stupidly hoped that she was more more on Chimamanda's side on this issue. Sad to see I was wrong.

I see Sturgeon as a good performer and quite canny about optics. I'm afraid I'm cynical of her having any particular conviction about anything - she's a consummate politician. I do admire her ability but I wouldn't trust her for a moment.

ArabellaScott · 28/01/2021 11:58

[quote Wbeezer]@ArrabellaScott
You say Devil and the deep blue sea, if forgotten that one, ive been meeting "between a rock and a hard place" and "out of the frying pan into the fire".[/quote]
In my head the deep blue sea is Conservative blue. Smile

MissBarbary · 28/01/2021 11:55

Oh and by the way Scotland’s Covid figures are no better than England's. Population wise the 2 countries' figures are about the same.

A straight comparison obscures the fact Sturgeon only has one major city to take care of whose figures are abysmal, so this "she has done so much better than Johnson" mantra is nonsense.

MissBarbary · 28/01/2021 11:50

@BlackForestCake

Well, those who are against independence have nothing to fear now.

How does anyone imagine people as narcissistic and fragile as the wokey faction are going to lead a struggle against the British state?

Unfortunately there may still be a sufficient number of deluded separatists for whom "freedom" is more important than anything in real life.
Wbeezer · 28/01/2021 11:49

God typos galore!
There's some good analysis on this thread so i won't add my own clumsy efforts but will just say that i too dont know who to vote for apart from Andy Wightman as I also share his concerns about Land reform.

Helmetbymidnight · 28/01/2021 11:49

its interesting how the wokeys try and get anti-semitism and racist label stuck alongside the transphobic one. its like they know transphobic is too slippery so they need to try something a bit more substantial.

Shimmyshimmycocobop · 28/01/2021 11:48

I also voted SNP at the last election after being a life long Labour supporter, in the main because I liked Nicola Sturgeons leadership.
Very disappointed in how she has handled all of this, she appears to be frightened of alienating the youth vote to the point where she seems to mean nothing to no-one.
For the first time in my life I suspect I wi be spoiling my ballot paper in May Sad

BlackForestCake · 28/01/2021 11:47

BuffysBigSister you can vote for the ISP. They are female led and support women. Better than not voting even if they don't get a seat.

Helmetbymidnight · 28/01/2021 11:46

to my shame i dont know much about scottish politics but always liked how sturgeon came across.

not anymore- shes an idiot.

Wbeezer · 28/01/2021 11:43

@ArrabellaScott
You say Devil and the deep blue sea, if forgotten that one, ive been meeting "between a rock and a hard place" and "out of the frying pan into the fire".

BuffysBigSister · 28/01/2021 11:37

@WhatstheTruthRuth

I think the statement came out of a state of panic. It MUST be about a fear of losing the youth vote? I’m not on Twitter anymore because I can’t stand the manufactured rows and the level of ‘argument’.

But this is odd. Of course no one wants any group of people to be denied rights or be victimised but why is the FM seemingly ignoring the majority of women within her party who just want to ring fence some protections for women as per the Equality Act 2010? Why is this interpreted as anti-trans. The amendments to the Hate Crime Bill have been suggested so that the discussions can take place around these rights without fear of being criminalised - and this has been interpreted as ‘transphobes’ wanting to persecute the transgender community?! Why does it always have to descend into this mess of teeth-gnashing and wailing? The histrionics are staggering. And then of course all the Ultra right-wing, objectionable, homophobes and racists see it as an opportunity to stick the boot in and then the hard-of-thinking lump all the people wanting respectful dialogue about women’s rights in with them. And round and round it goes.

I’m disappointed with NS. This does nothing but alienate huge swathes of her female electorate. I voted for SNP after being a Labour voter all my adult life. I cannot bring myself to vote SNP in this climate. Show some compassion and understanding of the subtleties of this issue - at least have some dialogue with ForWomen Scotland and show you’re giving this issue proper, thoughtful consideration and aren’t just responding to the crowd that’s shouting loudest.

Exactly this. Long term Labour voter who switched to SNP mainly because I liked how Nicola was performing as leader. What's important for me is what she didn't say last night: not a word of support for women suffering abuse on social media for defending their sex-based rights. Nothing. My opinion of her has taken a real hit. I saw her interview Chimamanda Ngozie at the Book Fest a few years ago and I stupidly hoped that she was more more on Chimamanda's side on this issue. Sad to see I was wrong. I won't vote SNP and unless Andy Wightman sets up an independent party that supports sex-based rights, I won't be voting.
littlbrowndog · 28/01/2021 11:26

Sure she does.

It was a while ago for Joanna

Was in the newspapers