Dear Owen Jones, we are not frightened of transgender people, we are frightened of men.

Fundamentally I think this makes the Guardian look bad. It’s one thing to provide a platform for a variety of views, another to have your columnists in such open, bitter and vitriolic dispute. It’s awful personnel management.

It really does reflect very badly on them. I don't know why they can't see that. Maybe they look at his 1m Twitter followers and think he's untouchable.

I see Jolyon identifies as a feminist too. What on earth do they think that word means?

As for the thread LOJ's talking about in that Twitter link - has it really not occurred to him that shitty treatment of homosexuals and the resulting internalised hatred and shame is where transsexualism comes from?

The automatic conflation of LGB with T is the root cause of the issue.

I disagree. The original T was a form of G (and very occasionally L); that's why it was included in the first place. Pretending T has nothing to do with G is ignoring the very reason the concept arose.

Today's issues are rooted in denying the link between T and G, characterising T as something entirely separate - this allows heterosexual males to class themselves as T and thus brings heterosexuals into the alphabet soup.

Dident he flounce in an interview when someone asked him if he would be happy to sleep with a transman? which indicates he knows full well what sex is.

I think he cannot conceve of women acting in their interests as women as a legitimate thing.

He clearly has no idea how he comes across and seems to have learnt nothing from the 2019 election - he cannot see the world outside of his own Twitter echo chamber.

However, in a world where it is increasingly difficult to find employment in journalism, he has a job and a substantial following, so does he care?

Fundamentally I think this makes the Guardian look bad. It’s one thing to provide a platform for a variety of views, another to have your columnists in such open, bitter and vitriolic dispute. It’s awful personnel management.

Oh Suzanne Moore I do love you:

suzannemoore.substack.com/p/its-a-sin-a-note-on-twitters-witchfinders

"There is a name for those who want to take away the choices of women, whether you consider yourself left wing or right wing: misogynist is the polite word. But there are others."

Obviously he is not the 'women need to stay in the kitchen' type of misogynist. It's more that he just doesn't get women

He's of the generation that sees men and women as the same. That equality means sameness. And if men and women are the same, what problem is there with a male bodied person in a female bodied space. He thinks that surely the most important thing is not the body, but what is in the head; in the mind. that to suggest that women do not want male bodied people in female spaces is just bigotry and hate - because what makes a person is not their body, but their feelings and identity.

Except of course when it comes to your preferred shagging partner. Then , naturally , the sexed body is very important indeed.

So he doesn't have to listen to women who say he's misogynistic, he doesn't listen to Jewish people about anti-semitism, but he says we should listen to trans people more.

Hmm

If sex does not exist I wonder what it is that he thinks makes him a homosexual? Yes, he might have great female friends, but the power of sex, and his sexual orientation are so powerful and instinctive, that they define his identity as a gay man.

I cant decide if he massively hates women or is just thick? Its a conundrum isen't it

I think he just doesn't see women as autonomous beings who might want to be more than just support humans for everyone else. The idea that women might say 'no' to just being there to validate others, and have their own needs and desires which come first, is just alien to him it seems.

Obviously he is not the 'women need to stay in the kitchen' type of misogynist. It's more that he just doesn't get women.

The only time he even seems to care about women is when he can use them to virtue signal or score political points. This was very beautifully illustrated during the JKR thing. He accused her of 'painting herself as a martyr' after she had spoken about her abusive ex in her essay. But then the next day when her ex was on the front page of the Sun, suddenly he was full of concern about what had happened to her...... So that he could publicly declare how awful The Sun is.

He clearly has no idea how he comes across and seems to have learnt nothing from the 2019 election - he cannot see the world outside of his own Twitter echo chamber.

He also spends too much time on Twitter being re-affirmed by his followers and hangers on.

He thinks he has the right to decide what is acceptable to impose on women and girls; and to tell women and girls that their feelings of shame, vulnerability, dignity and integrity have no validity.

And yet he has no skin whatsoever in the game.

He'll never have to deal with those situations he's decreeing that girls and women must.

One wonders what it is exactly that in his mind entitles him to decree this to an entire sex class. Because he's being quite clear who is beneath him and should be bending to his commands.

I just never fail to be baffled by these people that spend hours ranting about how sex doesn't exist and there's no such thing as sex classes while demonstrating entirely sex based thinking, with a set hierarchy, and it's always one that they are at the top of.

I cant decide if he massively hates women or is just thick? Its a conundrum isen't it

I don't think it is that he hates women, as such...more that he cannot conceive of the female experience being different to the male experience. Plus he seems to believe that the female experience has got nothing to dow with biological/physical reality.He also, has wholeheartedly swallowed the idea that being trans is an actual material reality, rather than a psychological condition.

The automatic conflation of LGB with T is the root cause of the issue.

I cant decide if he massively hates women or is just thick? Its a conundrum isen't it.

As someone upthread elequently put it;

what a prick.

Some of them point to their past association with pro-gay struggles, or in some cases simply that they have been to gay bars before, as though any of this gives them a lifetime freedom pass to say whatever they like about other minorities

Says Owen Jones.

Yet he thinks it is acceptable to call women transphobes, for standing up for women and girls, and for suggesting that women's spaces, women's sports and women's services should be for women.

He thinks he has the right to decide what is acceptable to impose on women and girls; and to tell women and girls that their feelings of shame, vulnerability, dignity and integrity have no validity. That their feelings and needs are somehow hateful.

Misogyny is one of the world's biggest horrors

Says Owen Jones.

Now that sounds like the politically correct thing to say - but it would be interesting to know what he understands as Misogyny? What does he think it looks like in practice? What are the contours of Misogyny?
What causes Misogyny?

Owen Jones knows all about misogyny:
twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1354417581483032579

That's us told.

in his mind he felt he had the right to state his view over others who might have had expertise, lived experiences etc. He felt his view was obviously factually correct at the time.

What an imperialist way to behave

I also found this tweet by Jack Appleby somewhat informative.

twitter.com/jackappleby/status/1354154338189529096?s=20

It is actually retweeting another person (Nuddering) who I don't know anything about, but listed an interest that the little one had in uni regarding another group known for being marginalised and persecuted. I am not quite sure whether he was correcting them as per his perception which does match the group's, or what his intentions were. .... either way he felt it was his role to amend wikipedia entries about Israel on numerous occasions to reflect what he felt was the truth.

My point being, in his mind he felt he had the right to state his view over others who might have had expertise, lived experiences etc. He felt his view was obviously factually correct at the time. Funny how he denigrates any person who wants to stick to the 'facts' now. Or maybe it is just that they are women.

Janice has rather handed him his behind in a party bag there.

She really has.

If Jones and the Guardian had courage and total confidence in their convictions, they would get Jones to write an article based on his tweets, open it for comments, and then not modify those comments out of existence if they told him exactly what they thought of the article. But they don’t.

They’re complete cowards.

Urgh is he still going on? Trust a man to order women on how to feel about the subject.

The custard's gone toxic?

I told you lot not to leave it standing out all night. It's gone off, like poor old LOJ.

Janice has rather handed him his behind in a party bag there. It appears that the Guardian and its crew have completely lost it over Christmas, it's getting more and more unhinged, and that Janice is somewhat taking the gloves off to share in this view.

A jelly pool, FYI.