'Transwomen' (though not 'transmen' welcome at Ann Summers parties. Love balls.

Are Ann Summers reps still invited by a host to do the party in their house, or do they host their own?

Bloody hell Spartacus you're right. I hadn't even thought of that.

Also now thinking of the person sent to facilitate such parties and what training they have had, or what they might be able to do if they realise they are facilitating a situation where a female participant is not comfortable, is not feeling safe and does not feel able to say no. It puts them in a very difficult position. We're back in the familiar situation in ensuring a mixed sex situation does not disadvantage of harm females where a female is most likely to be the one responsible, and has to risk assess who in the group is likely to be the emotionally and physically safest for them to say no to. With this likely to have to be a higher priority for a female in the heat of the moment than the real justice and policy.

Its again one of those situations where on the surface you think what's the problem? And then you unpick it and see this has the risk to go disproportionately and badly wrong for females, it's a sex based vulnerability that can't be helped without being able to talk about sex based issues and acceptance they exist, and that 'most of the time it will work out ok' is not a fair reason for female people to give up control and consent and have to just rely on hoping the males in the situation will choose to play nice.

Do you remember when life wasn't this constantly complicated?

Ironic that the company one of whose directors co-owns a football club with the Sunday Sport's proprietor should want to do this.

Got it YetAnotherSpartacus, thank you.

I cannot believe that we are living in a world where we have to consider these things.

I risk being deleted if I fully explain what I mean.

Have you read the TW thread and the experiences of women there who have been gaslighted, who sometimes live in fear and who are told that they are mean or transphobic if they do not go along with their partner's wishes?

Not all women act with autonomy because they do not have the capacity to do so - and I imagine that these parties would be beguiling and enticing for some of the partners of the TW's and the partners would particularly want other women and their partners to attend.

YetAnother, I completely understand that and I respect it.

But do you think that the fact that some people can choose to invite both women and trans women to a private party to look at sex toys (or Tupperware or whatever) reduces that choice? Anyone is free to decline an invitation to anything, giving any reason they feel comfortable with. I thought this was problem free as long as the invitation clearly stated “women and trans women”?

I am happy to be told I am wrong if you elaborate.

mmm ... I'm aware that 'choice' is not an uncomplicated business for many women.

To be honest, as long as the language is clear, I do not see the harm at all.

I agree that certain women won’t be comfortable with having trans women there. These are private parties, they can choose not to come or arrange their own party. Some women may have a lot of fun with trans women there. Some women may have a lot of fun with all kind of males there. Good for them, everyone is happy.

This is completely different to prisons, shelters, prisons, changing rooms and sports where women a) cannot choose and b) are vulnerable or at a disadvantage.

But again, language is key in order to offer a choice.

I'm a keen reader of the Transwidows' thread and can imagine how some of the partners or ex partners there might react to this and what kind of awkward position transwidows would be in.

I can say with certainty that my husband would rather get kicked in the shin than walk into an AS party with women discussing sex toys

lol, very true, mine would be the same

I can say with certainty that my husband would rather get kicked in the shin than walk into an AS party with women discussing sex toys. 😆😆

I'm sure a rogue husband or boyfriend would be more likely to be there than a TW but nobody seems concerned about that

A blanket ‘some women might be embarrassed’ covered that in my mind

I think some women might be embarrassed if a man or someone they perceived as a man was there

I’m not concerned personally whether it was a transwoman, or a man....as I wouldn’t be there in the first place

(Unless i fall for a trick and find myself at a party accidentally again. But i am both older and wiser people, older AND wiser)

I have absolutely no interest in Ann Summers parties. I find the thought of discussing advanced lingerie and sex toys with other people appalling, male or female.

Having said that, as long as they state trans women and women, I don’t really see the issue with it.

If it was a make-up class (still unlikely that I would attend, but possible), I wouldn’t mind at all if trans women attended. They would probably be better at make-up than I am.

I just think it needs to be open. I have a friend who wears the hijab (which she only will take off at home with only women) and who does not touch males (except her husband), even to shake hands. I doubt she would attend an ann summers party, but possibly, possibly a female only make-up party. I could see her having issues if the make up artist was a trans woman. Language is important, even in non safeguarding situations.

I quoted you quaagars because as soon as a woman said "women means women" you want to find the exception

Because in this scenario, which is what the thread is about, an Ann Summers party, nothing else, why is it safeguarding issue or where we need protecting there?

I quoted you quaagars because as soon as a woman said "women means women" you want to find the exception.

And no, Sappho, the words "women only party" doesn't change meaning according to who says it or which party.

Which bit of women means women do you not understand Quaagers?

Why have you quoted me, completely ignored what I actually said, and come out with that in response?
I do understand that women means women.
As Sapphos said, it's up to the host who they invite to the party.
Where though, where you've conveniently ignored the point I made, which is why do women need protecting and safeguarding in a party environment full of other adults partying too?

I'm sure a rogue husband or boyfriend would be more likely to be there than a TW but nobody seems concerned about that
true!

But were I to attend a party which was billed as "women only", that's what I would expect.

Surely that would be between you and the host?

This site is quite interesting, apparently men are 'discouraged' from attending but not banned. I'm sure a rogue husband or boyfriend would be more likely to be there than a TW but nobody seems concerned about that.

www.theanswerbank.co.uk/Body-and-Soul/Question439019.html

Women means women and we need that protected in any and all areas. Even ones we’d baulk at the idea of attending

Even at...

Which bit of women means women do you not understand Quaagers?

Personally, I am not interested in the ridiculous "sexy" underwear and goods industry. It's simply not part of my life.

But were I to attend a party which was billed as "women only", that's what I would expect.

Why do think some men should be included when others aren't?

Women means women and we need that protected in any and all areas. Even ones we’d baulk at the idea of attending

Even at an Ann Summers party, where it's full of adults, attending a party/maybe having a few drinks and a laugh together?
It's not a safe guarding issue in this respect.

Exactly. Open them up to all men, in theory. Individuals can decide. But the expectation of a mixed sex space should be given.

I think many women will see this and wonder why the dishonesty is needed. What's the big deal with making AS parties mixed sex? Why the need for euphemisms like 'trans women' at all? It just makes it look like there's something to hide.

The point is if the host said it was for women only and men were there.

That is the point

Yes. The gaslighting needs to stop, in whatever circumstances.