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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

A war of words is beginning to wipe women out of existence, Janice Turner in the Times

136 replies

Igneococcus · 22/01/2021 18:12

Haven't actually read it yet:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ca340930-5cce-11eb-86f4-4fa0aa4e7fd3?shareToken=12c48ac962c2fb8fc9593cc9f5bbf5f3

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HecatesCats · 23/01/2021 22:23

"As Jane Fae says..." Confused

Jane Fae? Silly women with their "eggshell skulls" getting murdered in a boring pedestrian way, Jane Fae?

A war of words is beginning to wipe women out of existence, Janice Turner in the Times
Tootsweets23 · 23/01/2021 22:11

It is a great piece. The bit that stood out was the 38% of women in prison for sex offences are transwomen.

I'm sure this has been done elsewhere in this board much more properly, but I looked up the prisoner numbers, there are 10,000 male prisoners convicted of sex crimes in 2019, and 186 women. In total.

This BBC reality check piece said in 2018 there were 60 trans people in prison for sex offences in England and Wales (out of a total trans prison population of 125). With all the caveats around these numbers - who is being counted as women, whether biological sex or gender is being recorded of a prisoner, the BBC piece says these numbers don't include anyone with a GRC for example.

Even if these figures are ball parks. 54m adults in the UK. 27m males approx, so that is .03% in prison for sex offences, or 1 in 3300. For women, that is .0006% or 1 in 160,000.

How many trans identified people in the UK excluding those with GRCs? Who knows, but I've heard people say up to 500k. Say even sex split. So 60 transwomen in prison for sex crimes is .02% of the biologically male trans population. Or 1 in 5000.

But as Jane Fae says in the article, I wouldn't want to read too much into the figures as I might misinterpret them, and the real risk isn't the threat of sexual violence against women prisoners but creating unwarranted hostility against trans people. Obviously.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-42221629

HecatesCats · 23/01/2021 20:34

@ArabellaScott

Just wanted to note this excellent comment.
Perfect
PopperUppleton · 23/01/2021 20:30

Gah it didn't copy the comment 🙄

PopperUppleton · 23/01/2021 20:29

@ArabellaScott

Just wanted to note this excellent comment.

I loved that comment too! Made I larf

PapsofJura · 23/01/2021 20:26

Thanks for sharing, a brilliant article.

ArabellaScott · 23/01/2021 20:01

Just wanted to note this excellent comment.

A war of words is beginning to wipe women out of existence, Janice Turner in the Times
RozWatching · 23/01/2021 18:31

@HecatesCats

The problem with Lamonts statement is the captured will simply state "off course women are free to choose a woman examiner. Transwomen are women!"

Oh no, you see, "for the word gender substitute sex" - that's JL's amendment. They can't I'm afraid, and they can't have the word woman either.

Yes, Lamont called their bluff. They could have carried on with the inane TWAW argument at that point but no one dared.
Goingtothebudgies · 23/01/2021 18:25

.

HecatesCats · 23/01/2021 18:16

Sometimes unreasonable people just need to be told no.

WitchesNest · 23/01/2021 18:09

Perhaps trans people should be treated the same way a tantruming toddler is - ignored when they are throwing a fit for no good reason. We ignore the demands to have our language erased, we continue using our language without so much as acknowledging the tantrum. They’ll soon get bored, the same way all tantruming toddlers do when their hysterics aren’t rewarded with attention.

YepCuntyIsTaken · 23/01/2021 18:01

fabulous!

HecatesCats · 23/01/2021 17:59

NB I'm not afraid, I'm extremely relieved

HecatesCats · 23/01/2021 17:59

The problem with Lamonts statement is the captured will simply state "off course women are free to choose a woman examiner. Transwomen are women!"

Oh no, you see, "for the word gender substitute sex" - that's JL's amendment. They can't I'm afraid, and they can't have the word woman either.

Maladicta · 23/01/2021 17:56

The comments are heartening!

YepCuntyIsTaken · 23/01/2021 17:44

@HecatesCats

So good and she used such a great quote from Johann Lamont. We should be able to have this debate in the open, this is the consequence this is the cost...

“If members do not agree that women survivors of violence and rape should be able to ask for a woman examiner,” said Labour MSP Johann Lamont, “they should say so, and we can have that debate.”

The problem with Lamonts statement is the captured will simply state "off course women are free to choose a woman examiner. Transwomen are women!"

and the nonsense continues.

I know we do not (and should not) want to give up the word women, but I can't help but feel "female examiner" would be more useful. Yes they are coming for "female" too, but its easier to demolish "TW are female" with those committed to the TWAW ideology.

3timeslucky · 23/01/2021 17:31

Brilliant article. Thanks for the sharetoken

pepperaunt · 23/01/2021 15:25

Just read that brilliant article. Will be emailing the Editor!

nauticant · 23/01/2021 15:22

Cheers SkeeterP, I think there's no harm in editors hearing directly from readers saying what an excellent job their publication, and a particular member of staff, are doing.

I do think that The Times will have a small but useful uptick in subscriptions due to their exposing of the gender identity ideology to sunlight. It's also an investment in the future reputation of The Times in these times of no-platforming and mis- and disinformation.

ValancyRedfern · 23/01/2021 13:25

Brilliant article. Sums everything up

tenlittlecygnets · 23/01/2021 13:22

Brilliant piece.

Before the first Women’s March, which sprang from fears that President Trump would destroy US abortion rights, trans activist Munroe Bergdorf tweeted that to “centre reproductive systems” at the demonstration was “reductive and exclusionary”. Even feminism should not focus on female concerns.

Obliterating biological sex will not help their cause. Already in US high schools female athletes are forced to compete against teenage males who identify as girls. In Connecticut, two trans athletes have dominated track events, breaking girls’ state records, denying female competitors qualification to higher contests. These include Selina Soule, 17, who plans to take her discrimination case to the Supreme Court. What do activists tell such girls? That they must try harder or just suck up their defeat.

The problem for the world’s women is that biological sex is not some abstract idea or inner feeling. From menstruation to menopause, pregnancy to birth, abortion to rape, it is a vivid reality.

NotMeekNotObedient · 23/01/2021 13:21

Wonderful article.

DialSquare · 23/01/2021 13:06

Brilliant.
Anyone reading that who still doesn't get it, has an agenda.

SkeeterP · 23/01/2021 13:00

@nauticant

That’s it. I’m subscribing to the Times because of Janice Turner’s consistently brilliant reporting on this. Deserves to be rewarded.

In addition to sending thanks to Janice Turner, it's worth writing briefly to the editor of the paper ([email protected]) to say that it's The Times willingness to cover this issue, including the terrific contributions by Janice Turner, that means you've subscribed or will be continuing your subscription.

Done. Editor emailed.
ketosavedmylife · 23/01/2021 12:33

Wow, succinct article summing up everything. Thank you for posting, @Igneococcus. My only hope is that the pendulum swings both ways but how long do we have to wait for sanity to return?