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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Ireland, Puberty Blockers are reversible, guidance issued to GPs

45 replies

Oncewasblueandyellowtwo · 21/01/2021 17:57

The Irish College of General Practitioners along with TENI-Trans equality newtwork Ireland, have issued new guidance for GPs working with trans patients.
They state that puberty blockers are a reversible intervention.

Ireland, Puberty Blockers are reversible, guidance issued to GPs
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3timeslucky · 16/02/2021 15:04

It seems to get forgotten that TENI is a lobby group, an activist group, a support group and most importantly a group incapable of objectivity due to their vested interests. It is NOT a group of experts or professionals (beyond their own personal experiences which is not what expertise is, or how professional status is acquired).

It is very clever positioning on their part. It is worrying and quite frankly dangerous that groups from the ICGP to the writers of school text books turn to them for content.

XXSex · 16/02/2021 11:15

Just linking to another thread in case anyone is watching this thread and might miss the other one.

A TENI member retweeted “advice” from a trans woman on how Irish children should go about getting hormones and blockers illegally. Seriously this is the lobby group that the ICGP allowed to write a medical guide Shock

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4165723-Irish-transactivists

SarahGoode · 10/02/2021 19:43

OShea is always good on this. We need more doctors like him

Dancingrandomly · 09/02/2021 08:15

@DublinCrone

Sean Moncrieff interviewed Prof Donal O'Shea about the ICGP reversal on Newstalk www.newstalk.com/podcasts/highlights-from-moncrieff/are-puberty-blockers-reversible

It's a great pushback against the GP-led model that prominent activists on the HSE gender steering group were agitating for.

Prominent T*NI member on twitter complained there was no trans voice on the radio piece. And another prominent IT journo concurred, arguing that despite the recent workshop with Irish journalists telling them how to report these stories, they didn't do what they were told!

iCGP have really damaged their reputation by allowing activists groups write guideline documents. There no proper methods in this - it is a very poorly researched document.

That's an excellent interview with Prof Donal O'Shea. It was measured and sympathetic towards the needs of people experiencing issues with their gender identity. But he also recognised that the medical pathway needs to be supported by assessments that are evidence based to ensure the best outcome is achieved for each individual. I am not sure what exactly TENI would have had a problem with??? The most prominent Endocrinologist in the country speaking factually about the medical outcomes of puberty blockers is hardly something they can claim to be more knowledgeable on surely?? Hmm
XXSex · 09/02/2021 06:39

@DublinCrone yes you’re right. It’s still a woeful document. They pulled the bits that women were vocal about but there’s still soo much wrong with it.

DublinCrone · 09/02/2021 00:05

Sean Moncrieff interviewed Prof Donal O'Shea about the ICGP reversal on Newstalk www.newstalk.com/podcasts/highlights-from-moncrieff/are-puberty-blockers-reversible

It's a great pushback against the GP-led model that prominent activists on the HSE gender steering group were agitating for.

Prominent T*NI member on twitter complained there was no trans voice on the radio piece. And another prominent IT journo concurred, arguing that despite the recent workshop with Irish journalists telling them how to report these stories, they didn't do what they were told!

iCGP have really damaged their reputation by allowing activists groups write guideline documents. There no proper methods in this - it is a very poorly researched document.

NotFabulousDarling · 08/02/2021 23:49

Definitely! I was rather hoping now we'd moved to Ireland things would be a bit less silly on the medicalised gender politics front.

Cailleach1 · 08/02/2021 23:19

Yes. Shocking such a thing happened in the first place, though.

NotFabulousDarling · 08/02/2021 23:07

Great news that they've turned around on this.

Dancingrandomly · 08/02/2021 21:19

@SarahGoode

No Colin Coyle in the Sunday Times Ireland also covered it
Thanks. I couldn't see it reported anywhere else, though I saw Stella O'Malley had raised concerns about it last month.
SarahGoode · 08/02/2021 20:05

No Colin Coyle in the Sunday Times Ireland also covered it

Dancingrandomly · 08/02/2021 18:27

Is gript.ie the only Irish media site that has covered this reversal?

gardenbird48 · 08/02/2021 17:58

I've just seen this - another step forward. Disgusted of Manchester being their usual disingenous self on the comments and Jo March was up early again - she is a star.

334bu · 08/02/2021 08:45

mobile.twitter.com/Baroness_Nichol/status/1358509764200849409

The Baroness retweeting information that knowledge that drug harmful and non reversible especially for women known for a long time but ignored.

notyourhandmaid · 08/02/2021 05:15

Ironically the website asks for your informed consent before you read about this treatment.

elgreco · 07/02/2021 23:55

Ignore the a.

elgreco · 07/02/2021 23:31

Thanks, that's a really good news .

MaudTheInvincible · 07/02/2021 20:55

It added that for transgender children, “medical interventions such as hormonal or surgical interventions are not indicated”.

That's good to read. Thanks for the share token.

Mumfun · 07/02/2021 20:26

Thankful

XXSex · 03/02/2021 08:55

Thought I’d bump this for the morning crowd as this really is good news for Irish children.

XXSex · 03/02/2021 00:04

Gript have reported that the ICGP have removed the guidance. The link is no longer working. That has to be the quickest turnaround ever!

gript.ie/irish-college-of-gps-removes-newly-published-transgender-guidelines-from-website/

NecessaryScene1 · 22/01/2021 08:07

If this is correct though, surely in males, this continued growth would lead to greater than expected height in MtF?

I'm confused on this as well - I've seen contradictory information on the height effects of blockers (and other hormone messing). I guess if there is a specific puberty growth "phase" there's plenty of scope for messing with it either way by adjusting the entry point and/or end point.

As a general observation, even without puberty blockers, it does seem to be the case that FtM tend to be small and MtF tend to be big (for their sex). I just don't see 5'11" FtMs or 5'4" MtFs often. They're 5'0" and 6'2".

But that's just my impression. Not seen any actual data on it.

It's possible that there could be two overlapping phenomena here - extreme height making you more aware of your sex and hence increasing dysphoria/body discomfort, hence MtF transition selecting for tall people, and this possibility that transed boys get increased height through hormone disruption.

There are historical records that castrati had a quite particular physique, including being unusually tall. Wikipedia:

As the castrato's body grew, his lack of testosterone meant that his epiphyses (bone-joints) did not harden in the normal manner. Thus the limbs of the castrati often grew unusually long, as did their ribs. This, combined with intensive training, gave them unrivalled lung-power and breath capacity.

We should presumably expect to see the same effect in boys with sufficiently-blocked puberty. But presumably the introduction of cross-sex-hormones then moves away from that path.

(But noting last sentence of that quote - hmm, a male who didn't go through male puberty wouldn't have a sports advantage, eh?)

umbel · 22/01/2021 07:28

NiceGerbil just on the puberty blockers/height in girls issue, my understanding is that blockers allow growth to continue for longer, as at the end of puberty the growth plates close. So, girls on blockers should grow taller than they ordinarily would have, had puberty progressed naturally. Blockers have been used to ‘treat’ young people with short stature. This article explains more (and also outlines some of the horrific side effects):

www.statnews.com/2017/02/02/lupron-puberty-children-health-problems/

If this is correct though, surely in males, this continued growth would lead to greater than expected height in MtF?