A horrific example of how badly wrong surrogacy can go

Exactly Pandora the weird behaviour of the SIL case was assumed to be based on jealousy.

The thing is these situations aren't discussed or at least we don't hear about them in the media, it's all fluffy and lovely, nothing on the hormones and injections, the blood, risk and recovery of the birth, and certainly nothing on the emotional side for the SM. (SM's are expected to, and often achieve, a full on disassociation and consider themselves an oven for the commissioning parents bun, whether money changes hands or not.)

But outside of the media agenda these stories are everywhere and often they are buried and no one talks about it. Least of all the children who, like children who are adopted, might grow up feeling like something is off/missing but can't quite explain it.

Though children who are adopted usually (hopefully) are told, and surrogate-born children are too, the reality is it relies on the commissioning parents to tell them the circumstances of their birth and who their genetic and biological parents are.

If the truth is buried early on how hard it must be to face it 12, 14, 18, 20 years later.

For being a racist.

Report me for stating the obvious.. OK

I've heard of several rifts in close-knit families when one has a child for another member.

Everything from jealousy that the surrogate's pregnant to resenting them being in contact with the child they gave birth to.

Even a simple disagreement over parenting styles can end up causing massive divisions when surrogacy was part of the picture.

An interesting point and an example that lends itself...

Auntie is the surrogate mother to a child for her brother (via egg donor) her sister in law acts weirdly towards her the entire time, from the acceptance of her offer to the delivery. Child is born and loved by parents, Auntie plays normal Auntie role though she personally feels closer to this child than other nieces and nephews, she suppresses this and grows distant from her brother and sister in law.

Years pass, all is well, SIL develops new interest in religion, I won't say which but it impacts her parenting style. She is strict with the child at family gatherings. Auntie/ Surrogate mother feels awful that the child she gave birth to is, what she considered to be, unfairly punished. She described the physical reaction she had to this as a 'burning'.

She raises it with her own mother and her brother, the brother does nothing, doesn't want to know, her mother/the grandmother arranges family events without inviting her.

I’ve reported both your posts @IndieRo

Had it occurred to you that you are posting these comments to the very people you are talking about?

That's the law but people flout the law. It happens here, it happens in America and probably nearly everywhere There are always ways around laws.

Of course. However, that doesn't mean the law should be changed to allow it, which is the context for much of the discussion on this board.

I just found it interesting that surrogacy can be opposed for reasons laid out very eloquently above by MichelleofzeResistance and others, and for probably much less touchy-feely reasons by the Chinese state.

Well said MichelleofzeResistance.
Surrogacy should be banned outright, everywhere in my opinion.

I've read a couple of the articles. She sounds appalling. I feel sorry for the babies, the surrogates and also the father. It sounds like he desperately wants to care for them but can't take them home to China with him unless she co operates.

MichelleofzeResistance

I was coming back to this thread to reply to that post, but you articulated it far better than I could ! My experience (previous job working with vulnerable families, including LAC and PLAC) definitely supports what you have said.

As for the suggestion that it's damaging to the baby: are we saying that every child who is adopted, every child whose mother dies at birth, is inevitably dreadfully damaged? Or shall we acknowledge that in many, many cases, the child grows up fine.

When you adopt a child, you will take part in thorough training and screening over a period of time, that begins with making it very clear that adoption is rooted in loss. This is no one's first choice as a means of parenthood; not the child's and not the adoptive parents'. Grief is a part of it, and the child has a history and experiences that may well result in the child having needs and struggles they may need long term or even life long support with. Yes, trauma and attachment issues are seen in babies removed at birth. That many adoptive children and parents have the resilience and family/parenting skills to have happy, successful lives is a wonderful testament to them; many would tell you it didn't just happen by itself. Parents are very thoroughly vetted before a decision is made as to whether they will be able to offer a child the adoptive home needed, there are intensive interviews and background checks and home checks. It's an invasive and tough process. For a reason. And there's no financial incentive. There's also increasing amounts of research into the experiences and reports of adult adoptees who talk about how hard it is to grow up away from birth parents even in the best of adoptive circumstances, the resentment of being chosen to fill a hole in someone else's life - it's not all sunshine and roses and often very hard because they both very much love their adoptive families and aren't supposed to have these angry, resentful, hurtful feelings.

This is about intentionally creating a child in that situation of loss; not about helping an existing child who has been unlucky and needs a family. This is intentionally throwing the dice on the child not being seriously harmed by separation from their birth mother.

This is totally disregarding how the human being created feels about being created for the desire of an adult, how they may feel about their birth mother's history and exploitation, how they may feel about having a designated role in their commissioning family's life they were created to fill for them.

This is about parents who will never be vetted or interviewed or trained, or even given basic background checks. And will not be primed and checked that they are clear that the child coming into this situation is not their blank slate but a person with a history that they may well need help with.

It's absolutely not the same.

The Chinese government mouthpieces aren't mincing words!

“Surrogacy is clearly banned in our country, as its disregard to life makes one’s blood boil,” China Central Television, the state broadcaster, said. “No law or ethics will allow it.”
and
Beijing News, a state-run newspaper, argued that the case was a persuasive argument against legalising surrogacy. “When life is associated with trade and money it flouts humanistic ethics,” one commentator wrote. (both from Times article)

I used to be ok with altruistic surrogacy because I could imagine carrying a niece or nephew for my sister...and breast feeding and partially raising infant niece or nephew seemed to be a kind way to wean the baby from the birth mother and give the baby love and bonding. That loving, shared experience with a trusted sister seemed healthy. (In this imagined scenario, I also didn't even consider the father as having any impact/opinion on my body or decisions of the pregnancy...which is awfully naive, isn't it?)

But after digging into it more, and reading stories of exploitation and the idea of "fertility equality" which is just about commodifying women's bodies, I've changed my mind about surrogacy. It seems that in the majority of cases, the woman is doing it out of family pressures, financial need or possibly her own mental illness. My above scenario suddenly seemed like a rare utopian version, not reality.

Worse case scenario the surrogate mother dies due to a pregnancy/birth complication, leaving her own children motherless and her husband unable to look at the new niece/nephew or speak to his sister. It’s incredibly selfish to risk another woman’s health to solve your own infertility. Pregnancies with donor eggs are higher risk too.

And non-surrogate mothers also die for the same reason. Does that mean that it's selfish to risk having a second or third child? In the case in question the relative very much wants to do this, and has taken medical advice.

What if the baby has an illness or special needs? Can you guarantee that the commissioning mother won’t assign blame to her sister in law

Without going into personal details, yes.

Or the sister in law struggle with feelings of guilt? What if the brother and sister in laws marriage breaks down mid pregnancy and the surrogate mother finds herself handing over a baby she had assumed she would see grow up, now that the sister in law is no longer part of the bigger family unit?

Honestly, if everyone went in for this amount of catastrophising the human race would die out. Sure, happy endings are not guaranteed in every case. But that applies also to normal births.

her sister in law is surrogate out of pure altruism using the first woman's egg, no money is changing hands. Everyone who knows the people concerned are delighted for them. I can't see that any gimme, gimme, gimme is involved.

Familial relationships often break down post surrogacy, it creates all kinds of fissures. Having a baby for an in law seems a particularly hairy situation to me.
Worse case scenario the surrogate mother dies due to a pregnancy/birth complication, leaving her own children motherless and her husband unable to look at the new niece/nephew or speak to his sister. It’s incredibly selfish to risk another woman’s health to solve your own infertility. Pregnancies with donor eggs are higher risk too.

What if the baby has an illness or special needs? Can you guarantee that the commissioning mother won’t assign blame to her sister in law? Or the sister in law struggle with feelings of guilt? What if the brother and sister in laws marriage breaks down mid pregnancy and the surrogate mother finds herself handing over a baby she had assumed she would see grow up, now that the sister in law is no longer part of the bigger family unit?

Even a simple disagreement over parenting styles can end up causing massive divisions when surrogacy was part of the picture.

As for the suggestion that it's damaging to the baby: are we saying that every child who is adopted, every child whose mother dies at birth, is inevitably dreadfully damaged? Or shall we acknowledge that in many, many cases, the child grows up fine. Sure, I know that doesn't always lead to happy endings, but then plenty of people who stay with their birth mother end up damaged also.

A baby who becomes separated from their mother due to tragic circumstances is not comparable to a baby who is commissioned with the intent of removing the child at birth. We don’t even do that to puppies.

How awful, especially to imagine what those babies will think when they grow up and learn about how they came to be. I hope they find a loving home.
I'm also quite surprised that the couple went ahead to have two surrogacies at the same time, wouldn't it be a bit overwhelming to have two babies at once out of choice?

I would ban it completely- in all circumstances. It's the ultimate "gimme, gimme, gimme

Is it? I know someone in more or less the situation suggested above: married woman who can't have a baby for medical reasons, her sister in law is surrogate out of pure altruism using the first woman's egg, no money is changing hands. Everyone who knows the people concerned are delighted for them. I can't see that any gimme, gimme, gimme is involved.

As for the suggestion that it's damaging to the baby: are we saying that every child who is adopted, every child whose mother dies at birth, is inevitably dreadfully damaged? Or shall we acknowledge that in many, many cases, the child grows up fine. Sure, I know that doesn't always lead to happy endings, but then plenty of people who stay with their birth mother end up damaged also.

Just this week I've seen a crowdfunder for an Israeli gay couple to raise in excess of $100k to buy a baby from Columbia. If they fly the surrogate mother to give birth in the US they get a US passport for the baby.

Also a I saw a story of a lesbian couple using their sperm donor baby to get one half of the couple legal status as the mother (she didn't carry and give birth to the child) as she was German she didn't have citizenship. The court overturned the government decision though she may not be granted citizenship still, it seemed like a 'anchor' type case though she may still be extradited as they were not married.