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Original poster

Silence of the Lambs etc - are TRAs fighting historic battles?

138 replies

UndyingDeathdefying · 12/01/2021 08:58

I watched this the other night and was pretty shocked by the transphobia......

It made me think about all the TRA posts justifying behaviour by saying “X happens to trans people, therefore they are uniquely vulnerable, therefore those asking questions are wrong”

Looking at old films (Crocodile Dundee was another) it’s clear that society used to have carte Blanche to mock and humiliate transsexuals and to infer criminality.

There is often talk here of the TRAs being led by older men. Well, a man of 50 would have watched both the films I mention above as a teenager. It must have felt degrading and humiliating.

It might explain the sense of “mission” and the clear feeling that the ends justify the means. Just a thought.

OP posts:
Original poster
UndyingDeathdefying · 12/01/2021 13:43

"But that doesn't mean that I have thrown friends under a bus whenever I condemn TRA actions, changes in legislation that undemine the safety and dignity of women!"

.... and that's fine.

OP posts:
Original poster
UndyingDeathdefying · 12/01/2021 13:41

Isnpiral I don't know what that means.

OP posts:
Original poster
UndyingDeathdefying · 12/01/2021 13:40

"I think the general tenor on this board is to understand a little less and condemn a little more Is that a new(ish) way to say "Women, shut up, move over, don't make a fuss" ??"

Ah, it's not. What's wrong with deciding to condemn a little more and understand a little less? I may be curious about xyz - you may feel it's a distration from what you care about/ that as a matter of principle it's ok to centre something else.

And think about the John Major context before you reverse his meaning.

OP posts:
InspiralCoalescenceRingdown · 12/01/2021 13:38

That's a tall horse you have there, OP.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 12/01/2021 13:37

I think the general tenor on this board is to understand a little less and condemn a little more Is that a new(ish) way to say "Women, shut up, move over, don't make a fuss" ??

I know why "these people" choose to be as they are. I know what they go through over long periods of time, how far they will go to achieve their aims. But that doesn't mean that I have thrown friends under a bus whenever I condemn TRA actions, changes in legislation that undemine the safety and dignity of women! TRAs do that just fine without any help!

What has gone before is all part of the journey to where/when we are now. You really cannot re-write history! You can only try to reduce it's negatve effect on today. Banning things doesn't do that, it just hides them, drives them underground

Original poster
UndyingDeathdefying · 12/01/2021 13:33

"Because we are supposed to be nice"

And that isn't what I think, nor what I said.

I may choose to reject the idea of women having to nice and yet remain curious - not necessarily in any particularly clever or well-thought-out way, just curious.

OP posts:
Original poster
UndyingDeathdefying · 12/01/2021 13:31

"Why do women need to be more understanding about the aggressive tactics I've described in my earlier post?"

Who said they should? I may choose to be curious - you may reach a decision that you want to put your focus elsewhere.

OP posts:
ThatIsNotMyUsername · 12/01/2021 13:31

Because we are supposed to be nice. Op hasn’t seen this memo apparently.

HecatesCats · 12/01/2021 13:29

I think the general tenor on this board is to understand a little less and condemn a little more

Why do women need to be more understanding about the aggressive tactics I've described in my earlier post?

Original poster
UndyingDeathdefying · 12/01/2021 13:26

"always telling people to be nice"

I think you've mixed me up with someone else.

I may choose to be curious as to why these people are as they are.
You may choose not to be for any number of reasons which may be good ones.

OP posts:
hedders · 12/01/2021 13:25

I'm not sure this take is helpful, OP, as the causal link you are suggesting just isn't working very well. (Silence of the Lambs being about a serial killer and not transsexualism, as it would have been referred to then.)

I agree with you that it is always important to put yourself in someone else's shoes, trying to understand her or him, even if you profoundly disagree. Social phenomena have complex causes, though, and I struggle to see how a number of films from the 1980s and 90s can explain the actions of male middle-aged transitioners today. Other factors (revolution in the ways in which people access pornography, the rise of the LGBT movement, much more representation of women in politics and workplaces etc.) seem more important, and I think that was the point of other posters, too.

The Silence of the Lambs is a genuinely haunting movie, a well-executed psychological thriller, a masterpiece even, with stellar performances. I'd hate to see it reduced to one issue that has only recently become mainstream and highly politicised.

Original poster
UndyingDeathdefying · 12/01/2021 13:21

"always "?

OP posts:
ThatIsNotMyUsername · 12/01/2021 13:20

Why is seeing an issue from your own risk analysis wrong? Why are you always telling people to ‘be nice’ but never the ones who issue threats and try to take away rights? Why don’t you try to understand more and canonise less?

Original poster
UndyingDeathdefying · 12/01/2021 13:11

It always goes badly when I post here after a recent name-change ... should have thought of that.

I think the general tenor of the responses (apart from suspecting my bona fides, etc etc, ) is that it's a mistake to focus on the reasons why these campaigners are as they are because it becomes a mission to understand them as opposed to being about the people affected.

ie this
"I think the 50-year-old men who transition are motivated more by misogyny and opportunism, taking over roles and opportunities that are meant for women."

I think the general tenor on this board is to understand a little less and condemn a little more, as John Major once said.

OP posts:
ThePankhurstConnection · 12/01/2021 11:36

[quote Wrongsideofhistorymyarse]The character in Silence of the Lambs was based on Ed Gein who murdered and skinned women to make a suit.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Gein[/quote]
Came here to say the same. The character was based on something that really happened. It isn't transphobia, it is a character inspired by fact.

But lets talk about misogyny in films...

No?
Didn't think so.

ASatisfyingThump · 12/01/2021 11:32

@Yamayo

Just like female viking warriors were really transmen?
Yep. Never mind that shield-maidens are recorded in several Viking sagas, and in the histories of the people they fought against. They must have been transmen. Not women who fight. That doesn't make sense at all Hmm
Molesmokes · 12/01/2021 11:00

It’s the sort of “Feminism” that is proud to centre people other than women.

“The Feministing family is thrilled to congratulate our former executive editor Samhita Mukhopadhyay on becoming the new executive editor of Teen Vogue!”

feministing.com/2018/02/07/former-feministing-executive-editor-samhita-mukhopadhyay-tapped-to-head-teen-vogue/

“Teen Vogue” aka “Trans Vogue”.

allmywhat · 12/01/2021 10:41

I agree Silence of the Lambs seems to strike a nerve among TRAs. I think the reasons for that are debatable.

transactivistsitow.tumblr.com/post/178075319865/this-is-disturbing-its-a-screenshot-from-a-mans

archive.vn/y2eRP This is long and disturbing, so reading all of it is not advised - but do scroll down far enough to see the delightful matching tattoo. I think you can also get an insight into the sense of "mission" that you mentioned from reading this article. And the sense that the "ends justify the means." I still can't believe that it was posted on a feminist site.

Yamayo · 12/01/2021 10:33

Just like female viking warriors were really transmen?

Justhadathought · 12/01/2021 10:26

Historical ( & ideological) revisionism is often used to justify a current position: to shore it up, and to make it seem inevitable.

MiladyBerserko · 12/01/2021 10:17

Society 'inferred' criminality? How do you know everyone in society inferred criminality from some films? Was there a poll after each showing?

Or do you mean 'implied'? Was everyone in society responsible commissioning the films? Publicly endorsing them?

Bit of a stretch there....

And, why are you not up in arms about the portrayal of women in films since, well, forever? Why are you on a FEMINIST board scolding women? Or are we women all at the bottom of the dungheap as usual?

ThatIsNotMyUsername · 12/01/2021 10:17

I think the OP ought to be protesting the umbrella actually.

ThatIsNotMyUsername · 12/01/2021 10:17

Norman Bates - he would be under the umbrella too...

Lammergeier · 12/01/2021 10:07

I think Ed Gein, who Buffalo Bill was based on, would fit comfortably under the trans umbrella these days.

NonCisWoman · 12/01/2021 09:56

As a middle-age woman, I don't like how my demographic is depicted in the media.

My demographic are either bitter spinsters or yummy mummies.

I'm neither of those things, so let's ban every film that presents my demographic in those ways.