Silence of the Lambs etc - are TRAs fighting historic battles?

Can you explain why you thought Silence of the Lambs was transphobic? You must have seen transphobia or you wouldnt have started the thread. So what did you see?

Trans people have not been well served by movies and tv shows. (Ace Ventura, anyone?)

Neither have women.

Neither have gay or bi people.

Neither have black people. Or people from the Middle East.

Neither have disabled people.

None of this has anything to do with why a bunch of misogynistic arseholes continue to shit their misogyny all over social media.

Ed Gein- wether you see him as someone under today’s trans umbrella or not- was a ghoul who’s crimes were so shocking and unbelievable they still have a grim fascination for many today, so it’s understandable they would inspire so many films (4 of which are excellent).

Silence of the lambs is based on an actual male serial killer who killed women to make his woman suit- not a transwomen.

Norman Bates had Dissociative Identity Disorder (you don’t see the mh community or survivors of csa having a violent hissy fit about that misrepresentation) - so not a transwoman.

Frankenfurter is seen as a positive, flamboyant and likeable- what would have been termed transvestite- it’s a stereotypical portrayal of a transvesite, but then transvestism is based on misogynistic stereotypes of women so don’t think that can be argued as a negative with a straight face (or garter belt).

Not movies but what about Lou Reeds achingly beautiful portrayal of many of the factories transsexuals and transvestites? Or his love song Coney Island baby to the transwoman he loved through dying from aids? Not merely traumatic violent limiting portrayals that would of course insight actual violence and forced removal of women’s rights to get us big meanies back (because it’s women who write, produce, direct and profit from all movies right? Or did we just not teach the men who do to be kind enough to the trans folk while we quietly accept our own rape & abuse from said men? Damn us again, double big meanies).

Hope you stretched before that reach op.

Maybe you are suggesting that what we are seeing in terms of male middle-aged transitioners (people who would have been in their teens/twenties in the 1990s and are in their 40s/50s today) is a generational thing, related to something about the youth culture of that time.

First of all, youth culture may not have anything to do with men identifying as women when in their 50s. You're making a link that might not even be there. Second, even if there was a link, it cannot be robustly studied because, again, people have their perceptions coloured by experience and having lived through the last few years. Thirdly, more research on middle aged men, just what we need.

Finally, does it really matter? Really matter, in the grand scheme of where we are at now? I may have all the understanding in the world and empathy going, but it won't deflect and shouldn't deflect me and others from the main issue of women's rights.

I can't help feeling that, OP, that you're trying really hard to understand something which is too nebulous to grasp. There is no one simple reason such as youth culture. It's a never ending rabbit hole.

Your points are v interesting. You are way ahead of me. But it would be fascinating if it could be researched (but how can that be done people won't give truthful accounts because that would be "letting the side down"?)

Thank you. I have learned a lot on this board.

The problem with doing solid psychological or sexological research on this issue is that social scientists have been shut down by activists. See, for example, Michael Bailey (book: The Man Who Would be Queen) and also Blanchard and Ken Zucker. Anne Lawrence is another researcher (book: Men Trapped in Men's Bodies).

Actually, come to think of it, there is quite a bit of research (but mostly on male transsexuals, not very much on female transsexuals, now why might this be??).

More generally, any social research has to deal with the issue of people not saying the truth. Social scientists have ways of controlling for that. The trouble, though, is that in this particular field, what the "truth" is has become unsayable! This is what worries me most about this, it's really pulling apart a basic scientific consensus.

Labelling things as transphobic or full of transphobia without any factual basis or indeed knowledge is a lazy knee-jerk reaction.

This is why I think it couldn't really be studied with any effectiveness. l

It would be interesting to look into the consequences of shame and mockery but I'm not sure it could be done effectively. Arguably many of us have experiences like that which have shaped us in some way I can point to a couple of horrible incidents in my own formative years - should lead to bad consequences though or to trans ideology as seen through the eyes of middle class former men? I'm not convinced - but maybe I have the wrong end of the stick, happy to be told so?

I absolutely agree with this but the fact that misogyny and violence creeps in whether from people who are truly trans or those using the ideology as a vehicle still needs to be addressed and as I saw one trans person I follow today say (paraphrasing) if that is the case we should see the trans community condemning it but that isn't what we tend to see, unfortunately.

I'm all for thinking aloud, asking questions, and testing opinions on an anonymous messaging boards. Seriously, if all my ideas were brilliant all the time, I could print them and charge money for them right away!

Back on topic, I do think OP is on to something here: "the shaming and mockery from my childhood/teenage years and the efforts to shrug that off has led people to bad consequences." Shame does seem to play a role in the development of identity and sexual disorders (controversial point, I know, but my hunch is that we are ultimately dealing with a disorder). Maybe you are suggesting that what we are seeing in terms of male middle-aged transitioners (people who would have been in their teens/twenties in the 1990s and are in their 40s/50s today) is a generational thing, related to something about the youth culture of that time.

If that were true, though, we'd need a fairly accurate understanding of the age range of the 'trans community' (again, the exact composition of which would have to be defined). There seem to be plenty of younger people, in their 20s and 30s, some even younger, who identify as 'trans', and who can be rabidly misogynistic, so I'm not sure a generational analysis works. Would be interesting to have that data, though.

As for whether a trans identity can be just an excuse for unbridled misogyny, I'm not saying that never happens (it very obviously does) but I also think that many trans-identified people are actually very sincere, and genuinely believe that they are somehow the opposite sex. That again is different from believing that you have gender dysphoria and that your life will only be worth living if you transition.

My mistake, the tone of your posts seemed you were or at least thought you were being clever.

I think the general tenor on this board is to understand a little less and condemn a little more, as John Major once said.

I understand perfectly well that the character in the film was based on several real life serial killers and heavily influenced by the real world example of Ed Gein. What more do I need to understand? Should we deny Ed Gein and his skull bowls, shoe box of female vulva and female skin masks etc, existed OR are you saying nobody should make a character around them. Jame Gumb wasn't a transexual in the film so it wasn't mocking transexuals - it is clearly stated he was refused (reasons may be obvious from the film). You can't even argue people like this don't exist as alongside Ed Gein there are numerous other examples of cross dressing being used by or in murders. As we know under self ID and the Stonewall umbrella Jame Gumb would be considered trans now whether or not he is based on Ed Gein. It wasn't transphobia to base a killer on real life serial killers.

Why might women discuss things like this? Well... Are you suggesting that there aren't people online making very creepy and violent comments towards and about women under the guise of activism or just that we should ignore them too. Should we infact ignore anything from reality which makes you (or others uncomfortable) even if they do have a significant bearing on women's rights and safety?

You're saying that many groups experience such negative treatment but don't turn on women? so there must be other things at play?

I would have thought that was blindingly obvious and am surprised you've only just reached that conclusion.

It always goes badly when I post here after a recent name-change ... should have thought of that.

OP - if that is the case, may I ask you why you have changed your name?