Silence of the Lambs etc - are TRAs fighting historic battles?

Femininity used to be a derogatory thing in men. In some ways in some spheres it still is no doubt, but there are other ways it never has. Men in traditionally female roles have long since had the glass elevator effect benefit them, that’s not a new phenomena at all. And there’s lots of pop culture where men ‘rebelling’ and wearing make up and skirts was super cool & sexy & fawned over. Back in Lou Reeds era it was met with hugely derogatory attitudes, but just a short time after David Bowie, boy George, Kurt Cobain, Nicky Wire, Brian Molko, David Beckam etc - all hailed as cool and celebrated for femininity. Of course they can easily discard that femininity whenever they choose, and therefore side step any derogatory comments if they did get them, and then step back into it to be celebrated whenever they want again.

Again, women are shamed every day all day and we don’t go around raping and killing.

So what if trans folk are shamed - it’s not the thing that makes them violent in any way shape of form- if it was all women would be. It’s the entitlement that differentiates us, that’s way way more likely to be the factor in raging against women, the same way it is for other males. The idea we can mitigate the violence they show us by being more respectful is a joke. The vast majority of the time it’s already women who are willing to show respect and support to other groups, it’s men who don’t.

This feels like how can we be kinder to abusive men so they don't feel the need to abuse.

Absolutely. If a subset of people are upset because they think Silence is upsetting, and they're angry at women about it, they're misogynists.

The author wants to be the most oppressed, hates women, thinks sex transition is genuinely possible. The author writes a long drivel on this topic. You are overthinking it.

This feels like how can we be kinder to abusive men so they don't feel the need to abuse.

In my limited experience the only thing that stops abusers abusing is a show of force. Bullies are cowards who use any sign of weakness to bully but back off sharpish when faced with a big strong opponent.

In the UK it looks like the law will be the big strong opponent, which I find immensely pleasing. That's the kind of society I want to live in.

When all the opportunistic bullies have run off from this cause to another then we'll be back to a few people with dysphoria who can be helped in meaningful ways without destroying anyone else.

I don’t understand the terminology but it is a powerful argument for treating transsexual people with respect

Yes, everyone should be treated with respect ,but I read it primarily as a powerful argument for keeping transwomen out of women's spaces! Although I'm sure the author probably didn't intend it that way.

It's worth noting that Lawrence is arguing that the shame is the cause of, and prior to, the autogynephilic/narcissistic identity. So in Lawrence's concept, the shame is not caused by the social stigma of being trans. It's more like... men carrying a deep shame are drawn to this stigmatised identity.

(There is an interesting implication there.. if that is the dynamic, then what if the identity isn't stigmatised any more? Would a pathological attachment to shame cause people like that to keep pushing boundaries until eventually they get the social pushback they are craving? I think you can see something like that happening in the kink community- many kinks are all about shame at their root, and as kinkiness is destigmatised, social boundaries are being increasingly pushed.)

Re the terminology: discussions of autogynephilia tend to get deleted on here but it's worth looking up the definition.

To me the most bonkers thing about that article is the author's obsession with medical transition. It's like the author thinks it is possible to actually change sex. Being refused the magic "transition" "healthcare" seems mean to the author. Not what you'd call a strong grip on reality of "transition" there.

Quite right stripped, femininity in men is hugely uncomfortable for other men. I saw it play out when I was at school in particularly vicious ways. The more feminine boys were bullied. Anger with women is also about displaced aggression.

Being a woman seems shameful to men.

We can be proud to wear trousers and be engineers because that's levelling up. Not the same for gnc men.

As I don't think that anyone else has mentioned this, here are two scientific studies:

Prentky et al, 1989, The Presumptive Role of Fantasy in Serial Sexual Homicide, found erotic cross dressing in 25% of serial sexual murderers.

Langevin, 2003, A Study of the Psychosexual Characteristics of Sex Killers: Can we Identify them Before it is Too Late? Found transvestism in 15% and "gender identity problems" in 12%.

Obviously most cross dressers etc are not violent or vicious in any way. Maybe Silence of the Lambs talked about it in the wrong way. But there wasn't nothing behind it.

I think that it's quite possible that the aggression and sadism and hatred (including in the cases of murder) is connected to repressed shame.

and reposting that link to make it clicky.

www.archive.vn/y2eRP

The hole in the thread seems to be about a reference to an article which I linked on the first page. I don't know why the deletions - apparently for straightforwardly describing the contents of the article?

archive.vn/y2eRP

Since the comment with the actual link wasn't deleted, nor should it be, I'm reposting the link here. The article was written by a transwoman journalist and published by Feministing, a major feminist blog in the 2010s. It seems that the people who hang around here and silently report stuff don't want that article to be read. Hence re-linking it.

I'm also going to re-link Shame and Narcissistic Rage in Autogynephilic Transsexualism, which is highly relevant to OP's intuition that the pathological behaviour of many TRAs is shame-based. I had linked it in my other comment, which was deleted for quoting the insufficiently delicately worded comment. Looks like our observers don't want this read either, so here you go.

annelawrence.com/shame_&_narcissistic_rage.pdf

Please note both linked articles were written by transwomen and published in reputable outlets (one on Feministing, the latter in the academic journal Archives of Sexual Behaviour.) And while I'm not sure why the deleted comment was deleted, please note that I have avoided describing the article's contents in any way and am allowing it to stand on its own. And that both articles are extremely relevant to OP's initial post. They should be read.

It was like a window into a different simpler world

It often is OP

You are not responsible for fixing all the broken men.

You are allowed to chuck them in the bin.

I like the sound of your solicitor.