Mail on Sunday article showing testimony from Keira's case

Slightly off topic, but...

If trans women are women the. Why do they need puberty blockers to become women?

In respect of any application to the Family Courts, my understanding is that the threshold of evidence required is much lower. Things don't have to be proven beyond reasonable doubt just on balance of likelihood/ probability. For example, the courts can hold a Finding Of Fact to decide who injured a child, even where a criminal prosecution isn't possible. Also that there is the threshold if having suffered significant harm or being at risk of suffering significant harm.
So what I am wondering is whether what applies in family / care proceedings would apply to consideration of puberty blockers? Because if so I would be hopeful the court would take a risk averse approach. Can anyone with actual/ better legal know how advise if I'm on the right lines please?
I also know the family courts have removed a child from its mother and placed with father because they felt mum was influencing the child's wish to be trans, the case was well reported I think and mermaids criticised.

There is an inability to accept the idea that fifty-year-old men can't imagine what it feels like to be a fourteen-year-old girl in the people who show up here to harangue us about children's bodily autonomy, Winesalot. It has created a very negative impression on me.

Imagine having social power like that, its mindblowing for women to contemplate. We have not even managed to convince society that killing us is bad.

Yep, completely agree: www.femicidecensus.org

What has happened with trans is that children are not given full information. Instead, they are given a lobby groups interpretation of why they are experiencing confusion and fear. They are not encouraged to look at other explanations or supported to wait and see.

And as has now been determined by the High Court, most children do not have capacity to consent to treatment when they are not mature enough to understand the consequences.

So I don't think we should worry about giving children information per se. What we must do is ensure that it is from reputable sources and that parents are not excluded.

University College London Hospital and Leeds Teaching Hospital...
Fucking Leeds!

Err....
So, an adult male is to ejaculate and fertilize the eggs of a prepubescent child?
How is that even legal?

What do you think about this? I does say 'planning' so may not happen, especially when they see the full papers.

University College London Hospital and Leeds Teaching Hospital, which both administer drugs for GIDS, are planning to apply to the Family Courts to allow parents to give consent to a child under 16 receiving puberty suppressants. If successful, doctors would not need a judge's permission.

MaudTheInvincible

Yes Maud. They always seem to have a friend or two or a group with no health issues. At all. Just always smooth sailing.

From what I have heard or read from detransitioners, there is never any room for discussing the negatives. So why would these females discuss it with a male. And likely just an internet buddy.

And never is it a ftm person who transitioned twenty years ago who is beginning to find the effects of testosterone transition . In fact, it seems quite a number didn’t even get told about vaginal atrophy in their consults let alone the possible muscle cramps after exercise, uterine cramps, incontinence etc etc.

Winesalot
I have found that the minimising of the risks to female teens and children are constantly downplayed though. Particularly by the male transitioners.

This. Every single time we get a male who identifies themselves as a woman on here, their attitudes to and about the effects of transitioning on girls revolts me.

There is a thread on it Malahaha but here is a sharetoken (I like to make the most of my subscription):

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/6a2ab6b2-529f-11eb-b5cf-1d37166171d9?shareToken=ff1485cdd7341caad38ae21d33b8e388

Is there a new Times article out today? If so, link, please? (I've read the older ones.)

Asking children to choose a father for their embryos is beyond belief. The ethical and legal ramifications must be huge.

Why did the Mail need to go to court to be allowed to publish the testimony? Is this usual?

Thanks Dial that article is absolutely blazing - the Mail on Sunday seems to feel like they are onto something so hopefully this will keep gaining momentum.

I like the fact that they included a link to an article about Abigail Shrier’s book and about the push to get it cancelled.

And the next sentence on from FannyCann’s quote above

'I believe this journey is hers to take and as is the job of any parent, I support and encourage her to be her best self.

The job of any parent is also to say no.

The euphemisms in the article... We are in a parallel universe.

That "Before puberty" section by the HFEA is horrific. Just the fact that it exists, and is supposedly addressing prepubescent children, as if they could be expected to understand it. I don't just mean "Gillick competency" level understanding, I mean literally parse and understand phrases like "stored testicular tissue". We are talking about primary school children.

I have noticed a general trend for children's health information to be addressed to the child (e.g. the Great Ormond Street website) and I can imagine the well-intentioned thinking behind that, but surely there has to be some recognition that children cannot be expected to take responsibility for their own medical care even when it's something quite straightforward, let alone these insane and abusive "treatments". I don't want to derail, but do posters who know more than I do about this area think there is a general trend to "empowering" children in their healthcare which might inadvertently be fuelling this stuff?

From the article EdgeOfACoin linked:

"My adult son refuses to call Zoey by her new name and can't get over his "brother wanting this", consistently blaming me as if I'm forcing this on "him"."

I make no comment.

Well done to the MoS for going to court to get permission for this testimony to be published.

This is child abuse isn’t it?

Take away the rainbows and the glitter and look at what has happened, unchecked and without safeguards, because trans.

Except it’s not because trans. It’s children struggling with puberty who have been shoved down a pathway instead of being given appropriate support.

Karen Davies has done a good and very shocking video on the “preparations” needed for phalloplasty and their long-term consequences for the health of female bodies and minds:

TO HELL WITH HEALTH! STAND UP TO PEE, GIRLIE! I MEAN, MAN!

One of the linked articles below the Keira Bell article is just as shocking:

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-9125607/Trans-girl-desperate-start-hormone-treatment-look-like-teenage-girls.html

I really do think some parents have just abdicated their responsibility when it comes to this ideology.

And of course those stored embryos will need someone to gestate them. A biological woman obviously. This goes hand in hand with the push for surrogacy.
As anyone familiar with my posts knows, I am steadfastly against surrogacy in all circumstances. But even I can see that in ten to fifteen years, when the girls who have had their future fertility stolen in this way see their peers pairing off and having children and families, they will mourn their loss and want that experience of motherhood. Why wouldn't they? If I was going to weaken my stance in anyway it would be from sympathy for these poor young women who have had their futures stolen from them.

I have found that the minimising of the risks to female teens and children are constantly downplayed though. Particularly by the male transitioners.

I was horrified to find out how much the risk of dementia increases with hysterectomies and then each ovary is subsequently removed. And then the increase of risk as the age of the patient decreases.

And I have seen a male poster intimate that it is fine that the risk of cardio vascular disease has gone up with testosterone. The transman now has the same risk as the category they wish to belong to. That’s a-ok.

These males are advocating for females to go through this process believing that their transman ‘friends’ are perfectly fine. Yeah... now. Check in on them in a decade or two and report back.

I will be very keen to see Gillberg’s study.