Feeling wary

Just to get an idea on what you are basing your claims on, jj, how many gc feminists in the uk do you assume there to be? You must have an number in mind to be able to work out the proportions of us that N number of statements represent.

Once again, jj speaks for "the vast majority of gc feminists" while simultaneously either ignoring what they have to say or writing falsehoods about it (eg "no-one has pointed out xyz" on a thread where it has been pointed out).

Selective hearing.

Was it F4, Hecates? If you also maybe leant on the 'alt' key to the right with your elbow, this might explain things.

100% agree @SophocIestheFox

The bizarrely controversial statement that biological sex is a thing surely ought to belong to no side.

Who counts as a high profile trans activist?

Its honestly amazing how much traction “Ah, that’s what you say, but I know what you really think” gets, and how much work it does.

I can emphasise till I’m blue (or red) in the face how I’ve never voted for anyone to the right of the libdems, that I abhor racism, that I have no time at all for anti-choicers, that anti semitism sickens me, that I am a dyed in the wool atheist who thinks evangelicals are bonkers, that I believe in progressive taxation, the welfare state etc etc and align with the right on pretty much nothing...but none of it would ever be good enough, because I believe that biological sex matters, and all the rest just flows from that. I must be right wing, therefore racist and all the rest.

It’s idiotic, it’s puerile, and I’d be embarrassed if that was the level I was debating at. It draws no distinction at all between a Proud Boy taking a pipe bomb to the Capitol and me - a gentle lefty who’s never so much as got a speeding ticket.

If you asked him if he was a racist, he’d say “Hell, yeah!”, and if you asked me, I’d say “fuck off, of course I’m not”, but apparently, I’m lying and he’s not?

Madness. You can’t seriously think this. And yet, OP, you’re right that a lot of people are seemingly unembarrassed to be this dim, like Arthur and Laurie upthread, and it worries me.

I am not aware of 10,000 trans activists advocating rape. I have never heard a high profile trans activist advocate rape, or any trans organisation and if I did then yes I would denounce them and call for people to no longer have anything to do with them.

Because there was an attempted violent coup in America yesterday and basically it was definitely organised by Mumsnet. Did you miss the thread where we were drawing up the Rota for storming Washington? It was in between the school run and making dinner.

I’d like to ask jj to please denounce Chu for those statements as well as the other 10,000 trans activists advocating rape and if this isn’t done, jj is aligning with those positions.

Yy. Second this.

No, I'm worried that the normalisation of anti-semitic conspiracy theories, Covid denial, moral panics about trans people/BLM/antifa, the growth of evangelical extremists and all the other far right tropes/tactics and allegiances that have been adopted by some GC people

Anti-Semitic conspiracy theories - nope not interested.

COVID-denial - incredibly annoying, generally shows poor analysis, maths and critical thinking skills

Moral panics about trans/BLM/antifa. - I am never quite sure when people talk about "moral panics".

If you mean that I have concerns about unethical lying to children about biology, unethical experiemental treatments on young people and inappropriately describing men as women, then I think you are just trying to dismiss genuine concerns without taking them seriously.

I'm not sure what a moral panic about BLM or antifa would consist of. Anyone who is white who doesn't acknowledge the amount of racism endemic in our society is doing black people a great disservice. I know nothing about antifa so can't comment.

I don't understand why a random group of opinions is being put as women's responsibility.

I’d like to ask jj to please denounce Chu for those statements as well as the other 10,000 trans activists advocating rape and if this isn’t done, jj is aligning with those positions.

but I think it's a valid criticism of the GC movement that they have not been more robustly dealt with

There is no way to "deal with it" because women who have concerns about the trans political agenda are only very loosely a "movement" united to pushing back against the pernicious ideology of gender identity politics and we don't have a leader or a rule book.

This seems hard for you to grasp, jj? We are all free to make our own stands for what we believe in, and not everyone approaches it from the same angle.

Shall we denounce BLM on the basis of the time a BLM advocate got sacked from her job promoting "diversity and inclusion" because of being anti-semitic on twitter, too?

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8826999/Grazia-magazine-sacks-new-diversity-champion-posting-anti-Semitic-Twitter-rants.html

Violence is wrong. Always.

So presumably you'd also condemn the Stonewall riots, the Battle of Cable Street and a large chunk of the Suffragette movement?

Oh, I get so tired of people telling women what to do, who to associate with, what to think, why we are wrong. It's just so fucking boring.

I'm not in favour of violence. That's it, I won't ever shift from that position. I don't care if you think Laurie Pennie and that Cho bloke are lovely and on the side of good, I'm not in favour of violence.

Violence is wrong.

Nada mas.

Violence is wrong.

Violence is wrong.

Violence is wrong. Always.

jj why are you so keen for us to not associate with Posie, Sonia etc? Who else is on the list of people you wish us to stop associating with and why? Are you worried that we may damage our cause?

No, I'm worried that the normalisation of anti-semitic conspiracy theories, Covid denial, moral panics about trans people/BLM/antifa, the growth of evangelical extremists and all the other far right tropes/tactics and allegiances that have been adopted by some GC people has the potential to take society to a very dangerous place - and it won't just be trans people who suffer.

From a purely Machiavellian point of view, then yes, it damages your cause significantly, but I don't welcome it because unfortunately it also strengthens causes which are far more dangerous.

Women with concerns about the trans political agenda and how it relates to women's rights or safeguarding children aren't a hive mind

jj knows this. They are not here for nuance, balance or fairness however.

Our institutions - Whitehall, Quangos etc etc.

fwiw I think Posie is a queen (in the positive female ruler way obvs).

The establishment has been captured by Critical race theory and MRA.

You do know that Trump has been in the Whitehouse for the last five years whilst we've had the Tories for a decade now? I very much doubt critical race theory has played much part in policy development. Which is a shame because how structural racism manifests in society and institutions like the police is important to understand. Of course racists would disagree.

Having read Animal Farm again recently (and seeing some crazy parallels - George Orwell was so good) it shows that the playbook for moving against democracy doesn't really change, whether it is Momentum or the trans lobby or the far right).

I don't see my position as being extreme anything though. For me this transcends party politics and far left/far right (neither of which are good). I would like biological sex to continue to be recognised, for women not to be erased from society as a discrete sex class and for our sex based rights to be upheld by the people we pay to define and uphold our rights.

I will also talk to anyone who will listen about this - and I don't play the rather dangerous game of labelling a group of people, attributing a particular behaviour/characteristic to them with the aim of dehumanising (we know where that can end up!).

jj why are you so keen for us to not associate with Posie, Sonia etc? Who else is on the list of people you wish us to stop associating with and why? Are you worried that we may damage our cause?

Antifa oppose such a society and are prepared to fight to prevent it whilst Momentum just want decently funded public services and the rich to pay more tax.

Oh of course. They're totally on the side of the angels, always.

Does that apply to the gender critical women who have also criticised these allegiances?

Women with concerns about the trans political agenda and how it relates to women's rights or safeguarding children aren't a hive mind, jj.

We all have the right to express ourselves and stand up for our rights. This transcends party politics, for me.