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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

'The year of Karen' - Guardian article

142 replies

ArabellaScott · 03/01/2021 13:33

More tedious pish on the 'Karen' phenomenon.

An article that directly equates women calling the police (however unjustifiably, all they did was call the police, hardly an illegal act) with a policeman murdering a man. Because of course the two are equivalent. In fact, I think the article's logic is that the woman who has called the police has actually directly caused the death of the man - it's almost as though the policeman disappears and is absolved, the blame shifted neatly from the (utterly fucking monstrous) actions of the policeman to the (perhaps racist, presumably highly-strung) actions of the woman. (Of course these were two completely unrelated incidents, but never miss a chance to use the correlation = causation fallacy when it helps your argument).

Quoting the last particularly nasty paras so you don't have to read the article:

'Complaints about Karen being sexist were noteworthy mostly for how neatly they re-enacted the Karen dynamic. Confronted with evidence of their own agency and complicity, some white women responded by reasserting their victimhood.

What I’ve found especially useful about Karen memes is the way they’ve given willing white women a tool with which to assess their own behavior and, if they want, improve it. My own mother, who is white, has on rare occasions demonstrated behavior that verged on the Karen-esque. This summer, for the first time, she acknowledged some of those Karen tendencies to me and stated her intention not to act like that any more – a conversation I’m not sure we would have had absent the meme.

Williams recalled similar conversations with white friends, and offered three simple rules to avoid being a Karen. One: recognize the privilege and history of being a white woman in this society. Two: avoid calling the police on people of color unless someone is in imminent danger of harm. And three: “Understand that it’s just not always about you, period. People are not out to get you for the most part, people are not trying to hurt you or harm your property or make you uncomfortable,” she said. “You’re not that special, Karen. You’re not that special.”

By people, presumably the writer means 'men', but it seems striking to me how men have been absolved of all responsibility here. The demon is clearly the writer's mother, and all women who dared to think they were 'special'.

This is pure, naked, misogyny. I would not want to be a woman or girl in the US at the moment.

OP posts:
FestiveStrop · 03/01/2021 14:46

Maybe I've become used to it as a mother of teens? I wouldn't say I'm married to
It. I'm not particularly keen it's a female name it could just as well be Ken afaik.

EdgeOfACoin · 03/01/2021 14:45

Was there not a radio show recently where a couple of young, middle-class women opined that middle-aged white women (specifically) should shut up and stop being such Karen's?

TheBuffster · 03/01/2021 14:45

And Tom Felton has been called a terf. It doesn't mean it's not a term deliberately used to apply to women who don't know their place.
These are the 20s versions of back to the kitchen and make me a sandwich.

TheBuffster · 03/01/2021 14:43

Think I would throw a festive strop if the child that I grew and nurtured called me a Karen.
Same as if they called me a bitch.

FestiveStrop · 03/01/2021 14:43

m.youtube.com/watch?v=b6h-sIGnKds

growinggreyer · 03/01/2021 14:40

Why are you so married to the term @FestiveStrop? What is it about the word that makes you want to spend today defending it? Do you agree that you are a Karen to your kids every time you tell them off for dropping crumbs or not putting their plates in the dishwasher.

TheBuffster · 03/01/2021 14:39

Yes to the guardian being a joke.
But what's the alternative?
I've become increasingly concerned that I agree with the average daily mail reader more than guardian columnists.
While it's important to apply critical thinking skills whatever you read, it does concern me that the so called free liberal papers have woke themselves right back into 1950s misogyny. No wonder teens are mindlessly parroting about Karen's and women's privilege.

FestiveStrop · 03/01/2021 14:38

I will admit that's the dominant theme I've seen online. Even though there are male versions on YouTube which I can link.

From what I have seen though it's like (for a generic example) someone's Macdonalds order going wrong at a drive through and culminating in screaming/abuse/throwing food and drinks at the people in the serving hatch etc...

It's highlighting that behaviour, regardless of sex.

Biscuitsanddoombar · 03/01/2021 14:35

The guardian is a fucking joke these days.

Biscuitsanddoombar · 03/01/2021 14:34

I’d prefer they just used bitch rather than Karen because that’s what they mean & at least that would be honest

nauticant · 03/01/2021 14:31

A Chad is an alpha male type who has little difficulty finding female sexual partners.

A Karen is a woman of a certain age who assertively defends her rights and entitlements, perhaps sometimes overly so.

How does that Venn diagram look?

TheBuffster · 03/01/2021 14:30

Yes, the Chad's and the Stacey's were just another stick to beat women with.
I'm not a stunner or anything, but had quite a few nasty boys and men implying I was a horrible person for not considering sleeping with them. Because of course IT'S ALWAYS WOMEN'S FAULT.

NotTerfNorCis · 03/01/2021 14:28

they’ve given willing white women a tool with which to assess their own behavior and, if they want, improve it

So if you're not in the habit of calling the police on random black people, which 99.99999999% of us have never done, how's it meant to improve our behaviour?

Also, how do they square 'complaining to the manager' with racism? They are two different things.

Is the message that we can just never stand up for ourselves?

dyslek · 03/01/2021 14:27

@FestiveStrop

Wasn't there a similar internet phenomenon concerning 'Chads'? Supposedly good looking but dim jocks who everyone took the piss out of?
The Chads meme was bandied about by incels. There was def no Guardian article proclaiming the virtue of the chads meme.
Thelnebriati · 03/01/2021 14:25

''the master's tools will never dismantle the master's house.''

You can't use misogny to tackle racism, they are too alike. Do better, The Guardian.

sashagabadon · 03/01/2021 14:25

That’s a terrible article and just confirms my decision to avoid the Guardian as much as possible in 2021.

BraveBananaBadge · 03/01/2021 14:24

“especially useful about Karen memes is the way they’ve given willing white women a tool with which to assess their own behavior and, if they want, improve it.”

Ah, the old ‘do better’. How thoroughly patronising. Whoever wrote this can get to feck.

TheBuffster · 03/01/2021 14:22

You know, I never complain at restaurants etc. I've been hounded by unfair complaints myself so don't like to rock the boat.
But if you are rude and shit at your job, without even trying to engage with potential problems then perhaps you deserve to have someone speak to your manager.
This automatic siding with those whom which a complaint is made is moronic. Yes, some people do complain about ridiculous things. That doesn't mean complaints in general are socially unacceptable.
Also, of course women do more of the complaining, as a lot of the time we do more of the donkey work.
I'm in no way defending racist women in America, but I resent being lumped in with them as having some kind of invisible privilege. My valid complaints should not be diminished because of who I am.

newyearnewname123 · 03/01/2021 14:22

Those who say it's used against men as well, can you get screenshots to demonstrate this?

thereplycamefromanchorage · 03/01/2021 14:22

I think I might have finally had it with the Guardian.

NotTerfNorCis · 03/01/2021 14:21

It wasn't similar FestiveStrop - that was incels and MRAs who were resentful of the alpha males ('Chads') getting all the women.

No one else used 'Chad' as an insult.

FestiveStrop · 03/01/2021 14:21

That's horrible NotTerf.

FestiveStrop · 03/01/2021 14:20

Wasn't there a similar internet phenomenon concerning 'Chads'? Supposedly good looking but dim jocks who everyone took the piss out of?

NotTerfNorCis · 03/01/2021 14:19

I've seen 'Karen' applied to an animal, a wildcat defending her cubs.

It is frustrating to see misogynists pretending it's about racism.

Splodgetastic · 03/01/2021 14:18

It’s no coincidence that the bloke who was killed by that policeman was a scumbag who held up a pregnant woman at knifepoint.