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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

From now on, I was in an LGBTQ+ family’: my husband came out as trans while I was on maternity leave

183 replies

Defaultname · 02/01/2021 15:27

www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jan/02/from-now-on-i-was-in-an-lgbtq-family-my-husband-came-out-as-trans-while-i-was-on-maternity-leave

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nauticant · 11/01/2021 10:36

Listen how carefully Heminsley is having to pick and choose her words to avoid inadvertently saying something heretical. This is excrutiating.

Toomanyparsnips · 11/01/2021 10:30

*Swinson. Bloody autocorrect

Toomanyparsnips · 11/01/2021 10:17

The roasting Emma gave Jo Swindon during the last election campaign makes it hard to imagine she isn't going to be at least a tad critical. But the way it was introduced gave me the chills - "you discover your husband IS a woman", not believes he is, or tells you he thinks he is, or all the other more neutral ways it could have been presented. I'm gnashing my teeth in anticipation.

nauticant · 11/01/2021 10:12

Alexandra Heminsley is going to be on today's Woman's Hour. This will be an indicator of how much of a Stunning and Brave fan Emma Barnett is.

Dozer · 05/01/2021 08:02

I’m a fan of her previous books.

A Times 2 article on this by Helen Rumbelow is good IMO. Alexandra seems to acknowledge, in her ‘darkest moments’, having felt ‘duped’ by her then H into having a DC, but then argues that he was ‘consistently not a deceptive person’. When the evidence v much suggests a long, long period of deceit.

It seems that she’s chosen to say mainly positive things to and about her ex, that they are a woman etc, and to seek to maintain a good personal and co parenting relationship with them. (The article said they shared residency of the DC). And to reject the idea of herself as a victim. Which is, of course, her prerogative - it’s her life!

The alternatives could lead to negative consequences from her ex, some of her friends, acquaintances, community (Brighton) and professional detriment too.

As PPs say, wondering if these choices have psychological costs.

PlantMam · 04/01/2021 20:17

I had a good look round the internet for signs of the authors ex. Looks like they’ve used the ‘right to be forgotten’ thingummy as I only found one tiny picture with no face showing.

Cailleach1 · 04/01/2021 20:13

Hmm. Looked this author up and glanced at a few of their articles. It seems that they were unable to swim and run for a while while pregnant. So did they not consider themselves a woman when they weren't as able bodied as before then? Yeah, we're all definitely buying that a woman doesn't really consider other women as such if they are in a wheelchair or exhibit a higher melanin content.

I have to laugh at the oh so progressive relationship line. They wrote that their child's sire progenitor was also spending time in the same residence during the first lockdown. The author stated that it was so novel for her (as the mother) not to be the sole caregiver. They were waxing lyrical about having someone to share some childcare in their flat for the first time in around two years. They had the novel luxury of making a cup of coffee without having their child around their ankles. They could get a decent night's sleep as they didn't have to stay on high alert for their child's cries as the only caregiver. And, a definitive sign of a resident deity was that the other adult cleaned up the dishes after the author cooked. Well, can we all just stand in awe of such progressive magnificence? A sire progenitor is dabbling in a wee bit of 'babysitting' for their own offspring around the three year mark. After the mother is spent and knackered from the strain of being the main caregiver for two years with a young infant. Is there an award for that level of progressiveness? Giving mammy the privilege of making a cup of coffee while the sire progenitor did her the favour of engaging with their own progeny.

People often create a narrative they are better able to accept rather than admit the unvarnished truth. Equivocate and gloss. If they acknowledged the truth straight on, it would be devastating.

However, I wouldn't like to be their baby. I'd prefer my mother to have comforted me if I was a baby in distress rather than seize the opportunity to play to an audience and take the piss out of my misery to look for kudos about how right on with the guys she was.

A line from Josey Wales comes to mind. "Don't p*ss down my back and tell me it's raining".

graziadaily.co.uk/life/real-life/co-parenting-divorce-childcare-lockdown/

BuntingEllacott · 04/01/2021 17:39

TheAdventures, yes, you're correct, the intent of the public confession is to enforce compliance on those who are already part of the group, demonstrate that she is a true and loyal adherent, and evangelize other women who may be similarly susceptible to the conditioning.

I've written loads on FWR about the dynamics involved from my own experiences of extreme patriarchal religion, but if I use the four letter C word that describes this psychology, I get deleted because women telling the truth about relevant life experiences is often deemed not in the spirit, so I'm afraid I have to rely on the intelligence of the reader to join the dots now.

EdgeOfACoin · 04/01/2021 17:24

@ArabellaScott

Oh, do people think that? I suppose it would be possible to make that (pretty gigantic) error if you never took ten seconds to check before deciding a movement was beyond the pale.

I do find that the term 'gender critical feminist' seems a tautology. All feminism is 'gender critical', isn't it?

I can only assume that that the person writing the Tweet I saw had only heard the TRA perspective. The writer had enough presence of mind to think 'no, that's not right' when hearing the ideology, but unfortunately didn't look into it and accepted the TRAs premise that GC feminists want to enforce stereotypes. I think there's also a tendency for people to want to say 'look, both sides have a point and here's the middle road: look how sensible and rational I am'.

The idea that GC feminists want to enforce stereotypes also may explain why I came across an article somewhere explaining how 'trans-families' adhere less to stereotypes than others.

I'm sorry, I don't buy that for a second. A quick glimpse at Bristow's Twitter feed and listening to Susie Green's TED talk shows straight away how important dolls and sparkly nail polish are to the 'gender identity' concept. I also think the coyness to define 'gender identity' is because it would be immediately evident that gender identity is to do with stereotypes.

I agree with you, Arabella that 'gender critical feminism' ought to be tautology. Unfortunately, I don't think it is.

TheAdventuresoftheWishingChair · 04/01/2021 17:05

@BuntingEllacott

The stuff about how she viewed women before - when I used to speak about “the average woman”, it was a lazy, self-reflective assumption: we bled, we fed, we bred. I would sit happily discussing the books I had written, all the while perpetuating the idea of “woman” as white, fertile, able-bodied, straight, cis.' - this is a confession of sin. It's not really relevant whether she was actually a racist homophobe who despised disabled women.

The point is to self-flagellate for two reasons - one is to paint women who disagree in the worst possible light, and the other is to get the psychological pay off of publically saying "and I was like these wretches until I repented of my sins!"

I've said so many times, don't underestimate the psychological reward for women who comply and enforce the conditioning. When you ask why they do it, that's nearly always the answer. We all do what we do for some reward. For some women, there is one for being an enforcer.

This was spot on, in my eyes. It absolutely is the confession of sin.

But if you think about it, it is rubbish that she didn't think black women and disabled women weren't women. That's an utterly monstrous thing to confess to and few people would freely admit to being that despicable a human being (other than in very rare situations like with Megan Phelps Roper who left the Wesboro Baptist Church which is genuinely actively homophobic). So her act goes beyond 'confessing sin' into also wanting to shame others into realising they were sinning. She is hoping other people scrutinise their own souls for black spots and be able to admit, 'gosh I never really thought about it but my feminism doesn't really consider the experiences of disabled women.' It helps convert others to the righteous path - getting woke cookies from saying 'I was once wretched,' is actually only one part of the goal. It's how she's openly able to say something so awful, I think. If she were a friend of mine and I didn't feel able to confront her, I'd at least say, what the heck have you just written - you were never that terrible a person and there is no need to pretend you were to indoctrinate others. Go about it another way if it matter that much to you.

I feel very much for this writer's traumas - it's shocking reading. I also think it's hard to like someone who is displaying internalised misogyny so openly. Lots of people have had really difficult experiences and find some courage in terms of moving forward.

eightxmaspaws · 04/01/2021 16:12

@Floisme

I've read it twice now. Not only had she just given birth, she had experienced multiple miscarriage, failed rounds of IVF, a sexual assault while pregnant, a hazardous labour and then struggled to breastfeed. Imagine going through all that and then have your husband announce, 'I'm a woman too.' I feel so angry on her behalf.
I'm with you @Floisme It beggars belief
OldCrone · 04/01/2021 16:09

@DeaconBoo

I think most people know it's 'critical of the concept of gender' and the associated power imbalances. However as a belief in gender identity is seen as the be-all-and-end-all by so many people it's seen as critical of them.
I am also critical of them. Because anyone who reinforces gender stereotypes by way of a belief in gender identity is either misguided or a misogynist.
ArabellaScott · 04/01/2021 15:15

However as a belief in gender identity is seen as the be-all-and-end-all by so many people it's seen as critical of them.

Ahhhh, yes, I suppose so. I forget that there are some people who are very keen on upholding and enforcing 'gender' stereotyping. That if one doesn't conform to stereotypes one must be not just a different gender but a different sex. It's all so blooming silly, I'm sorry, but it really is. Boys like dresses and fairies, must be girls, must have bodies altered to suit. Madness.

Defaultname · 04/01/2021 14:31

Oops. Girl mices. I think I was half typing 'girl misse'!

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Defaultname · 04/01/2021 14:29

Of course there are numerous self-.described feminists who belive that pumpkins can become coaches, and boy mices can transform into girl-mises.
Case in point, Joyo Moyes, who provided one of the pre-release enthusiastic endorsements on Amazon of the book we're discusing.
Granted she describes herself as "A stupid feminist". twitter.com/jojomoyes

It's an old problem with English that newspaper critics etc. are meant to review and examine, sometimes even praise, but we end up by saying "the critics liked it" which sounds like a paradox !

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DeaconBoo · 04/01/2021 14:07

I think most people know it's 'critical of the concept of gender' and the associated power imbalances.
However as a belief in gender identity is seen as the be-all-and-end-all by so many people it's seen as critical of them.

merrymouse · 04/01/2021 13:49

All feminism is 'gender critical', isn't it?

You would think, but apparently not.

OldCrone · 04/01/2021 13:45

Yeah, I can get it that some people might read it as being critical of people stepping over societal norms for male/female behaviour.

Interesting that they'd interpret it this way, when it means the opposite.

'Critical' always sound like a negative, preachy word in this context.

I thought it was meant to be negative - critical of the concept of gender.

ArabellaScott · 04/01/2021 13:35

Oh, do people think that? I suppose it would be possible to make that (pretty gigantic) error if you never took ten seconds to check before deciding a movement was beyond the pale.

I do find that the term 'gender critical feminist' seems a tautology. All feminism is 'gender critical', isn't it?

merrymouse · 04/01/2021 12:51

Maybe 'gender questioning' feminists would be better?

Defaultname · 04/01/2021 12:43

@EdgeOfACoin

I also thought the bit about her so-called progressive marriage and how equal she and her then husband were was only there to show how far away she is from those terrible T--Fs and their love for gender stereotypes (which is what genderist believers seem to think is driving those of us who don't believe that people can change sex - because they've never bothered to find out what we actually think).

Yes, I've seen this before too. Someone on Twitter explained that she wasn't a TRA because she didn't believe someone could change sex, but that she thought gender critical feminists were also bad because gender critical feminists want to keep everyone in their stereotypical roles. She thought there ought to be a 'middle ground', and proceeded to put forward the GC point of view.

I was astounded, but I don't have a Twitter account so couldn't comment.

Yeah, I can get it that some people might read it as being critical of people stepping over societal norms for male/female behaviour. 'Critical' always sound like a negative, preachy word in this context.

I'd rather it was taken as "expressing or involving an analysis of the merits and faults of a work of literature, etc." rather than "expressing adverse or disapproving comments or judgements."

Though it sounds pushy, I quite like 'gender-rational' myself. 'Critical; in our sense sounds quite Frankfurt School !

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EdgeOfACoin · 04/01/2021 12:16

I also thought the bit about her so-called progressive marriage and how equal she and her then husband were was only there to show how far away she is from those terrible T--Fs and their love for gender stereotypes (which is what genderist believers seem to think is driving those of us who don't believe that people can change sex - because they've never bothered to find out what we actually think).

Yes, I've seen this before too. Someone on Twitter explained that she wasn't a TRA because she didn't believe someone could change sex, but that she thought gender critical feminists were also bad because gender critical feminists want to keep everyone in their stereotypical roles. She thought there ought to be a 'middle ground', and proceeded to put forward the GC point of view.

I was astounded, but I don't have a Twitter account so couldn't comment.

OldCrone · 04/01/2021 12:03

Or it's made up as a sop to insincerely apologise for, as a deflection from the real "problematic" beliefs she is burying.

I thought the whole article seemed to be an apology to her woke 'friends' for having such problematic beliefs that she had to leave her husband. Even in her reasons for leaving her spouse she says it's because she believes TWAW and she's not a lesbian.

I also thought the bit about her so-called progressive marriage and how equal she and her then husband were was only there to show how far away she is from those terrible T**Fs and their love for gender stereotypes (which is what genderist believers seem to think is driving those of us who don't believe that people can change sex - because they've never bothered to find out what we actually think).

DeaconBoo · 04/01/2021 11:08

Two things made me really angry in those excerpts. The male magistrate ruling that a woman imagined her assault because she was pregnant.
And the self-flagellation at the end about having perpetuated that "woman" was white, straight, able-bodied, cis, etc. Either that's true, and the author was therefore fairly recently stupid, blind, racist, homophobic and had never thought to examine these ideas, in which case anything she said on the matter while labouring under these beliefs should be deemed irrelevant, and in fact her confronting these beliefs and how she came to realise that Black women are women too might have been the more obvious piece to write...

Or it's made up as a sop to insincerely apologise for, as a deflection from the real "problematic" beliefs she is burying.

TiersDryOnTheirOwn · 04/01/2021 10:40

It isn’t Kris Kardashian, she goes by Kris Jenner. So she’s both being unpleasant about KJ, who has experienced the same thing and incorrectly naming her. Yet you can imagine the fumes if anyone misgenders or deadnames her former husband.

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