Page 2 | Owen Jones talks to Judith Butler

RoyalCorgi · 02/01/2021 13:12

The trans movement is fueled almost entirely by white privilege.

Yes, of course. But the tactic they use is always to accuse us of the things they themselves are guilty of: they want to eradicate us as a sex class, so they accuse us of denying their right to exist; they are obsessed with genitalia ("lady dick" etc) so they accuse us of being obsessed with genitalia; they are aggressive and threatening, so they accuse us of being the same; their whole ideology is based on a racist equivalence between trans women and black women, so they accuse us of being racist. etc etc etc ad nauseam.

Daca · 02/01/2021 12:31

The 'racist' smear is rooted in the American context. When women's suffrage was ratified in 1920, most African American women were not allowed to vote because they lived under Jim Crow laws in the American South, which effectively banned black people from voting. So the argument is that black women have been excluded from womanhood historically, and that's why (somehow) excluding transwomen from womanhood is also a bad thing. (Neglecting the fact that universal male suffrage preceded women's suffrage.) It's obviously quite a stark appropriation of somebody else's oppression but there we are ...

Mollyollydolly · 02/01/2021 12:20

I wont give him the clicks. Not good for my blood pressure either..

ClaireP20 · 02/01/2021 12:00

@lionheart

Ugh, certainly.

I got to the point where they suggest that trans-exclusionary ('transphobic') feminists in the uk are racist and Islamophobic.

Except they didn't say it directly. JB asked about the connections between anti-migration, anti-veiling and trans-exclusionary feminism in the UK.

OJ said that 'intersectional feminists' would say that trans-exclusionary British feminists exclude women of colour and 'repeat Islamophobic talking points as well.'

God I completely agree. I'm not white, I'm Brexit voting, a trans exclusionary feminist .... I wonder what Owen Jones would make of me..

ArabellaScott · 02/01/2021 11:32

Always worthwhile, Inspiral.

Original poster

lionheart · 02/01/2021 11:28

They are really desperate to insist on the connection between GC feminism and racism.

OP posts:

InspiralCoalescenceRingdown · 02/01/2021 10:00

Is it time to post this video again?

Great series of articles by Dr Em starting here: uncommongroundmedia.com/the-trojan-unicorn-queer-theory-and-paedophilia-part-i-%EF%BB%BF-dr-em/

ErrolTheDragon · 02/01/2021 09:36

@zanahoria

OJ said that 'intersectional feminists' would say that trans-exclusionary British feminists exclude women of colour and 'repeat Islamophobic talking points as well

OJ, the expert on British feminism

did he name any of these people or are they just living in his imagination?

Meanwhile, most feminists don't exclude women of colour, aren't islamophobic and aren't 'trans exclusionary' - just that they know feminism is for females so includes TM but not TW, and won't be bullied and shamed into renouncing their sex based rights and language.

He's repeating myths.

NonCisWoman · 02/01/2021 09:26

Ten years down the line, we will be thankful for interviews like this.

When this whole scandal implodes, LOJ will be squirming around, trying to claim he never took sides, etc. Interviews like this will show that he was allowing, and encouraging, this madness to happen.

Malahaha · 02/01/2021 08:58

I do wish people would stop using race to bolster up their pro-trans arguments. Just about all the black people I know think it's nonsense. It hasn't even been worth a headline in my 99% black/brown country of origin. The trans movement is fueled almost entirely by white privilege.

ArabellaScott · 02/01/2021 08:56

Well, I suppose there are feminists who say these things. As well as feminists who attack survivors of FGM for being trans exclusionary. Women weaponising their suffering again, I presume.

zanahoria · 02/01/2021 08:52

OJ said that 'intersectional feminists' would say that trans-exclusionary British feminists exclude women of colour and 'repeat Islamophobic talking points as well

OJ, the expert on British feminism

did he name any of these people or are they just living in his imagination?

ArabellaScott · 02/01/2021 08:23

donquixote

SophocIestheFox · 02/01/2021 06:05

donquixote

There were a number of ways I wanted to fill in the rest of the thread title

Owen Jones talks to Judith Butler...

...and the result is incomprehensible gibberish
...and they agree that women (except Judith) are just horrid
...and they draw up the preliminary list of who’s off to the wall

donquixotedelamancha · 02/01/2021 01:18

As a massive fan of Jim Henson and the Muppets I can't decide whether I am more angry or disappointed by this theory.

Take a good look at that video and tell me, hand on heart, that you are not put in mind of a gelfling interviewing a skeksis.

NotTerfNorCis · 02/01/2021 00:39

Butler was damaging enough when she tried to make feminism too academic, moving it away from its actual purpose which is campaigning for women's rights. Now she wants to drain feminism of any meaning it had left.

TinselAngel · 02/01/2021 00:18

@donquixotedelamancha

Owen Jones still looks about 14.

I still think there is a reasonable possibility he's a puppet. When you watch his podcast he's not convincingly life-like- there something a bit Jim Henson about his movements and features.

Not saying he's definitely fake but if his career turns out to be an elaborate spoof, and he had Matthew Corbett's arm up his arse the whole time, I'm not going to be shocked.

As a massive fan of Jim Henson and the Muppets I can't decide whether I am more angry or disappointed by this theory.

Redshoeblueshoe · 01/01/2021 23:32

I can't watch that crap

donquixotedelamancha · 01/01/2021 23:30

donquixote gringringrin

See, people always think I'm joking- but the other explanation is that people have met him, spoken to him and then decided it would be a good idea to hire him to write for their newspaper or pay him to write a book.

The 'very long-term prank involving a puppet' hypothesis isn't looking so unlikely now, is it?

Clymene · 01/01/2021 23:08

donquixote

donquixotedelamancha · 01/01/2021 22:57

Owen Jones still looks about 14.

I still think there is a reasonable possibility he's a puppet. When you watch his podcast he's not convincingly life-like- there something a bit Jim Henson about his movements and features.

Not saying he's definitely fake but if his career turns out to be an elaborate spoof, and he had Matthew Corbett's arm up his arse the whole time, I'm not going to be shocked.

TiersDryOnTheirOwn · 01/01/2021 22:39

Owen Jones still looks about 14.

Sadly he also has the maturity of a 14 year old too.

VictoriaLucas102 · 01/01/2021 22:11

@Daca

Please delete if inappropriate but has OJ had Botox? He looks much younger than usual! (Nothing against Botox btw.)

Owen Jones still looks about 14. He’s definitely got some kind of of Benjamin Button thing going on.

EdgeOfACoin · 01/01/2021 22:11

There was a time when Owen Jones used to interview people he vehemently disagreed with. He interviewed Peter Hitchins once, as well as Jacob Rees Mogg.

I'm not entirely sure when and why that stopped.

ArabellaScott · 01/01/2021 22:08

capitalised on a history of sexual trauma

Fucksake. You disgust me.