Simon Baron-Cohen knighted

Simon Baron-Cohen has been working in this area for decades and the diagnostic criteria and nomenclature for pervasive developmental disorders has evolved substantially during this time. Clinicians have also taken different approaches to diagnosis which has further complicated matters.

But it's not really surprising that theories have adapted to changing pictures of this - when SBC was doing work in the late 1990s he was probably studying slightly different populations from those that would be encapsulated by 2020 understandings of ASD. It becomes a bit of a circular argument - who defines what ASD looks like? Then how do theories fit the new definitions of what ASD looks like?

annsautism.blogspot.com/2019/01/autism-some-vital-research-links.html
Ann Memmott is an actual hero for collating all of this research alongside frequent challenges of super-dodgy premises and methodologies.
There'll be a lot of research of interest here for anyone who is after good quality evidence challenging Baron Cohen etc.

'Assumptions of social relationality
The inability to ‘read’ the subtext of a social situation is often deemed to be a major feature
of those diagnosed as being on the autism spectrum, yet it is suggested here that social
subtext is never fully given as a set of a priori circumstances, but is actively constructed by
social agents engaged in material and mental production. There is a tendency in the
application of positivist methodologies in cognitive psychology and science to incorrectly
assume that there is a set of definable social norms and rules that exist for people to follow.
This ideology is also supported more explicitly by functionalist sociologists. This is not the
philosophy propounded by those of a phenomenological or ethnomethodological persuasion
however. The ‘theory of mind’ and ‘empathy’ so lauded in normative psychological models
of human interaction, refers to the ability a ‘neuro-typical’ (NT) individual has to assume
understandings of the mental states and motives of other people. When such ‘empathy’ is
applied toward an ‘autistic person’ however, it is often wildly inaccurate in its measure. Such
attempts are often felt as invasive, imposing and threatening by an ‘autistic person’,
especially when protestations to the contrary are ignored by the NT doing the ‘empathising’.
The ‘double empathy problem’: A disjuncture in reciprocity between two differently disposed
social actors which becomes more marked the wider the disjuncture in dispositional
perceptions of the lifeworld - perceived as a breach in the 'natural attitude' of what
constitutes 'social reality' for ‘neuro-typical’ people and yet an everyday and often traumatic
experience for ‘autistic people’. '

Extract from article above.

www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/09687599.2012.710008 If you have journal access. He has a book that might actually be called 'a mismatch of salience'. And there's a neurodiversity reader by Pavilion. Plus he's on Twitter.

Does anyone have a good link to read about double empathy?

I only heard about the double empathy problem a view days ago and it made so much sense.

I've spent ages ranting about how for people who are supposed to have all the empathy, neurotypicals can be outright shits to autistic people and it really helped with that. Oh and yes, I do have theory of fucking mind.

Thank you for the suggestion Super loud, I'll take a look at him

Thingybob, have a look at Damien Milton / PARC work in general for research driven by autistic academics.

Mismatch of salience / double empathy problem make a lot more sense than 'extreme male brain' to me.

Yes, it's ridiculous and fetish driven.

One thing I've never quite understood.... There's a significant rejection of SBC's extreme male brain theory among autistic circles and groups. Yet the same people are super big into accepting 'lady brain' trans ideology and totally buy into the idea that males who like adopting sexist stereotypes of women are 'actually' women and are welcome with open arms into female only groups and communities. 😕

I thought this was about Sacha Baron Cohen too!😲 was a bit surprised after the Borat movie!

Me too, although the latest Borat movie is a highly subversive feminist film in which the actress who plays Borat's sister steals the movie, it is really her film. IMO

As for the honours system it is getting to the point where so many highly dubious people linked to social justice and new age cults are being awarded knighthoods, MBEs and OBEs that I am am developing a provisional hypothesis that the honours system is being misused as part of a long game to discredit the UK and fuel anti-UK conspiracy theories.

(adjusts tin foil hat)

:) I think he is the clumsy one!

But we've moved on in just a few years I feel re diagnosis.

I personally love Temple Grandin.

I say that as an autistic woman

I honestly have mixed feelings, because despite me not agreeinhmg with his basic premis on autistic people, plus him being the most boring speaker ive ever had the misfortune to sit through, he has dedicated his whole life to autism research and is highly significant

Really disappointed to read this. It was his work in part that made me realise DD has ASD. Assumed he had been coming from it in a "girls with ASD often behave differently to boys with ASD because of sexism imposed upon them from a young age".

Possibly? I'm probably being overly flippant. And that's not to deny that that is often how girls with asd are. But not all by any means. And some boys in my experience are closer to how Atwood describes girls, and indeed, I've seen a couple being diagnosed late as a result.

I think it's makes more sense to describe differences and difficulties as a whole range rather than to say "girls are like this" and "boys are like this."

I thought this was about Sacha Baron Cohen too!😲 was a bit surprised after the Borat movie!

Don't know enough about his cousin to comment.

For anyone anti SBC I'd recommend the debate on 'gendered brains' between him and Gina Rippon that can be found on YouTube. It's great to watch as they are both so respectful of each other and surprisingly their views are not that different.

I’ve often wondered how much SBC’s work has contributed to the rise of gender issues in autistic girls. All his male brain crap and sexist diagnostic criteria hasn’t done women and girls any favours at all.

The book is called The Essential Difference.

Cohen's book is a joke. He based some of his research on the most ridiculous leading questions like Do you like fashion magazines and coffee mornings?
. He sees the fact that women like fashion mags more than men as evidence of gendered brains. No consideration of cultural differences/expectations. He concludes the book by saying women are better suited to be nursery nurses and men to be in financial jobs because of their brain differences. Sexist nonsense