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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Help for teenage dd.

81 replies

SirVixofVixHall · 31/12/2020 13:56

My daughter, just turned 16, had a very upsetting zoom call with her school friends last night. For reference out of the three others one friend is gay, one is lesbian. Dd is the youngest, two of them are 17.
Talk turned to Sam Smith and pronouns, and to trans ideology. Dds friends are very much in the TWAW camp. Dd is not. At one point one of her friends gave her a veiled threat, mentioning a girl who had been ostracised in school for having a racist boyfriend, eg likening dds views to racism and homophobia. ( i am NOT happy about this ) The same friend also criticised dd for not having her pronouns on her instagram bio .
Dd is a very kind, thoughtful and sensitive person, she is anxious and upset this morning. I have suggested she could send them all Magdalen’s Alex Drummond video, and Barracker’s article on pronouns - ( can anyone link me to that ? I had it bookmarked I thought but can’t find it) . To give them some idea of why she feels the way she does. It sounds a pretty depressing conversation, the totalitarianism dressed up as liberalism, the friend who is getting harassed by men in her job but thinks that sex doesn’t matter. They think that Keira winning her case was a bad thing. Dd is accepting of the differences of opinion and happy to debate, which makes it all even more upsetting and has made me quite cross on her behalf.
She did talk about her point of view, but felt that there were things she couldn’t say, eg when a friend insisted that TWAW, she didn’t contradict her, I think she is worried that she will be dropped by them, she is very fond of them and they are her closest friends in school.
How to help ?

Dd has a separate group of friends in another country, of whom several are lesbian, and all of them are very strongly TWAW, gendered souls etc, so much so that dd has never even mentioned her own opinions. I feel sad for her that there is this crushing of any other viewpoints, and that she is feeling that the only way to keep friends is to not speak up, and that she is akin to a racist for wanting single sex spaces preserved, for knowing that sex is real, that sexual attraction is real, and that this is a sexist and regressive agenda, not progression.
I was 16 in 1980, and honestly it feels like a better time. Most of my female friends had short hair, without being told that made them not girls, most of my male friends wore makeup. I read Spare Rib and felt hopeful for the future. ☹️

OP posts:
Locationunknown · 31/12/2020 14:18

You cannot use reasonable or logical statements as they will just be refuted as transphobic. I think she will have to keep her opinions to herself and be vague until these children grow up out of this behavioiur.

Regarding pronouns, it's easy for her to say she's not ready to be 'out' with pronouns yet as she's still undecided. They will respect language like that and back off.

Thelnebriati · 31/12/2020 14:18

I don't think your DD should send them any links or videos. It also sounds like its mainly one girl driving the ideology in the group by bullying the others. She's being subtle about it, but a threat is a threat.

If your DD decides to challenge them at all, its the bullying she should call out.
But its up to her, and you should support her whatever she decides, because it looks like she has the 'choice' to accept it or find new friends and neither is easy or pleasant.

nauticant · 31/12/2020 14:14

HmmSureJan got there first and I agree with her comments.

nauticant · 31/12/2020 14:13

Magdalen's videos are unlikely to persuade those deeply committed to the ideology. They're useful for undecideds, waverers, and people moving away from the ideologly, but not for true believers. True believers will quickly pull up the "blackface" tweet and be even more certain they're on the right side of history:

twitter.com/Crustopus/status/1018707901849001990

HmmSureJan · 31/12/2020 14:09

I think it would be a HUGE mistake for her to be sending videos like that to them as this would cement her position as a "Terf" in their eyes and I think would result in her being ostracised and severely bullied. I advise my children to keep their heads down and not get involved in any discussion, just nod and listen and give neutral responses. My children are GC and don't buy into the nonsense but they know the value in protecting themselves from the shameful bullying and abuse that would result in them challenging their friends. I've no other advice really. It's very difficult.

CatsCantCatchChristmas2 · 31/12/2020 14:00

Your daughter needs better friends - the sort of friends who would not dress up totalitarianism as liberalism.

They sound like mini-monsters.