First non-binary person granted UK refugee status.

Terrible to hear what a horrific time this person has had. I'm so delighted they have found asylum here, and wish them all the very best.

As someone else pointed out in another thread, looks like the guardian has removed the asspulled unverified 35 year life expectancy statistic (see last paragraph). Good on them.

He got kicked in by the police because they thought he wasn't 'man' enough.

Whether that's because they saw him as gay, trans, or just different, it's not trivial.

I really want orgs who talk the talk to be picking this stuff up. Everyone keeps saying gay marriage is done here and the laws so these orgs eg stonewall are looking where the money comes from next. They seem to be currently focusing on trans and then inroading into stuff that has nothing to do with them eg race, disability.

No. They should be working with orgs overseas on this stuff. Lobbying our govt to make noise. Fundraising here where they have lots of support and channeling the cash to grass roots orgs overseas.

Their own blurb says they have a remit including overseas.

So why the fuck aren't they doing it? It's engaging. Too tricky? Not fashionable enough? I mean FFS. Gay rights was always about fighting, about protest. So come on stonewall what's your excuse.

ArabellaScott as per Reality's post.

It was all immigration law translated into bat shit by people with an agenda for social media.

Can you imagine the political fall out of a UK citizen fleeing from their home because of persecution of that nature? Never mind that they chose to flee, erm, to a Commonwealth country...it's a total nonsense.

Their lawyer suggested that their newly declared non binary 'gender identity' constituted new evidence and appealed on those grounds.

The abuse was real, but what I'm reading from this is that homophobic abuse isn't enough to get asylum, but transphobic abuse for being non binary is.

While it's clear that this person suffered serious abuse in their home country, they appear to have internalised a lot of the repressive and regressive attitudes that they were surrounded by there. Long hair and painted nails as 'proof' that they aren't actually a man but are 'non binary' is sexism on steroids. It's also pretty homophobic to suggest that a man who likes such things and is also gay isn't actually a man at all.

Good.

This person is in danger of true transphobia, not the thought crimes that are peddled in the West.

Lysistrata thanks. Food for thought.

The story about the transwoman fleeing the UK as an asylum seeker was out and out lies, in that case. I think it was the Independent reported it, I should have known better.

Please don’t encourage Stonewall to go international. There are great and actually brave LGBT organisations in other countries, and they are not going to be helped by Stonewall going in, grabbing all the money, and doing divisive campaigning that makes life worse for many people they are supposed to help (as they have done here).

Do stonewall etc do anything about gay rights overseas? Loads of countries have awful laws/ very non accepting societies. Do they do anything around that? I would expect them to.

Isn't Stonewall a UK group?
If so not sure what they'd be able to do or achieve in different countries when it comes to their laws.

I had a look though their site quickly and while they mention it, all the stuff they have 'achieved' is UK and mainly based around trans and also training (paid).

Do stonewall etc do anything about gay rights overseas? Loads of countries have awful laws/ very non accepting societies. Do they do anything around that? I would expect them to.

I’ve been wondering that too.

Arabella I can only think of one case with a form of DV, and I'm not actually sure that was through the usual asylum channels - Princess Haya, one of the wives of the ruler of Dubai, who fled with her two children. She needed protection certainly, and she can at least afford bodyguards to protect her and the children.

Ordinary women though? They'd have to first of all get here, and then have enough proof to convince a judge they were DV survivors. I'm not hopeful.

Reading the piece it was clearly a homophobic attack

'In one incident, in the capital San Salvador, Joestar was stopped by police. “One of the policemen started asking about my hair, telling me I wasn’t normal, that they wanted to teach me how to be a man. Then they punched me on the chest and pushed me to the floor.'

It's good that we provide safety for people at risk in their own country.

I was also going to mention el Salvador women's rights record- women in prison for miscarrying.

Also. Do stonewall etc do anything about gay rights overseas? Loads of countries have awful laws/ very non accepting societies. Do they do anything around that? I would expect them to.

I saw that article earlier and was frustrated at the use of that life expectancy of 35 nonsense. Do no journalists check data anymore? No problem with people escaping persecution but it is interesting that being gay wasn't deemed a good enough reason.

Vivarium, I did not know that. Was it actually an 'asylum' claim as stated, then?

Lysistrata, that's horrific. Is escaping dv considered as a reason for granting asylum?

both of sides of the spectrum

both of sides of the spectrum

So a non-binary woman could just reverse that. Short hair, brassiere or pink and doesn't wear nail polish. Totally taking 'spice' from both ends of the spectrum.

'm very much in favour of the uk offering asylum to those who need it as Arthur presumably does, but does the judiciary ever look at the state of a country for women and state it's not safe for them to go back there? I've looked but can't find anything.

I very much doubt it.

I did wonder how an asylum application from an El Salvadorean woman would fare: the stats are grim. A population of 62 million (so not much smaller than the UK) and a woman is murdered every 19 hours. It's got the third highest femicide rate in the world. Pretty much none of them are solved. The rates of sexual assault are astronomical and there are very few internal organisations that can help the victims - many try and flee but they risk further violence from gangs.

I'm very much in favour of the uk offering asylum to those who need it as Arthur presumably does, but does the judiciary ever look at the state of a country for women and state it's not safe for them to go back there? I've looked but can't find anything.

Arabella that trans woman was granted residency in NZ - they had family ties, they had established social links, they had desired work skills and a job, and they paid tax.

So, it was really just a standard residency application - their gender status wasn't one of the important points the government require.

It appears that this person was subjected to homophobic abuse in their home country, but only identified as non binary once in the UK. They weren't actually persecuted for their non-binariness but for being gay.

There is a piece written by this person here:

www.crisis.org.uk/media/244227/howthelightgetsin_winter-2020-21.pdf

I went to court in November 2018 and revealed everything again. Sadly once again, the Judge didn’t look into all the details and she refused to grant me protection. According to the Judge, the incidents that I suffered were harassment rather than persecution, and they never gave me a reason why I wouldn’t be at risk in my country after all the evidence I presented. (Meaning they found it acceptable for me to be beaten by the police for my sexuality and abused in the streets.)
...
Physically, my appearance also changed. Without the fear of the attitudes shown to me in my home country, I felt confident to explore my gender identity. I let my hair grow and I started to define myself as non-binary, because I love the best of both of sides of the spectrum: I love gorgeous long blond hair, along with regular man clothes, and a touch of spice with my nail polish.

We tried to appeal with the Upper Tribunal, but unfortunately, they said there were not enough grounds for an appeal, so my case was completely closed. I felt hopeless, and couldn’t believe that my new life and gender identity could be ending. Fortunately, my solicitor found that my new appearance and gender identity evolution was actually new evidence that had never been taken into account

It seems from this that the homophobic abuse they suffered in El Salvador wasn't enough to be granted asylum in the UK, but once they identified as non binary, they were viewed differently.

And non binary for a male person appears to be long hair and nail polish, but for female people involves mastectomies and testosterone.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4119563-Elective-Mastectomies-for-the-Non-Binary