Erasure of 'mother' in Breastfeeding groups

The sad thing is that in the 1960s we'd have been delighted to be called "person" instead of always being "woman" even when it was completely irrelevant (as in all newspaper reports about anything, where we also got our age in brackets after our names and were given a physical description including what our clothes were like), and it never once occurred to us that anyone would be idiotic enough to insist on calling us "person" when "woman" was the most relevant thing there could possibly be in a situation.

I really think that the reality is the majority of women attending these groups would not feel comfortable with “inclusive” language and the majority of volunteers sense that or are equally uncomfortable with it so in local groups it hasn’t caught hold. Like so much of gender ideology it will eventually have to be imposed by some authoritarian means. Capturing women’s organisations at the national level and getting leaders such as lactation consultants, conference organisers and speakers and those who write articles and policies will pave the way. These would normally be the ones making the case for biologically accurate or plain English language which in times past was believed to be empowering to women.

Ugh.

Have to say my local LLL fb groups are stoically sticking to mother. But the area isn't as woke as many.

I've noticed bf groups in the US don't seem to be too affected either, oddly.

I take your point Hardbackwriter.

Some women I know like this are perhaps materially okay but have suffered emotional abuse on some level.

I was very struck that the moment my first child was in my arms everything changed. I realised that that was the point at which all my perceived equality went out the window.

Of course the women who volunteer for breastfeeding support groups will tend to be mothers so you might hope they would understand this too.

Unfortunately I don’t think that it can be challenged from the top down. As with Girlguiding, those at the top are fully signed up to “inclusivity” even if the volunteers on the ground are not.

I presume it was strategic that those running the organisations have been targeted or maybe they were more susceptible in the first place for some reason.

As others have said it is in journals, on social media and in training and from there it filters down. Importantly the message that you had better keep it quiet if you don’t agree with the new language is loud and clear.

I suppose those who struggle to accept gender ideology will be less likely to join these organisations or take on roles as volunteers. Eventually the “wrong kind” of woman/mother will be pushed out. As a pp said it makes a mockery of these organisations saying they want to reach beyond their middle class bubble.

This is just shocking - my preferred nouns are woman and mother (I wish I could use doctor too but sadly have never completed a PHD).

The erasure of women is terrible.

the women who are keen on the kind of inclusivity which disempowers women have been themselves oppressed and so their natural urge is towards appeasement and avoidance of conflict in order to keep safe. It is preemptive submission.

True, and it's a vicious circle. No amount of appeasement will ever be enough. Everything you give away will trigger demands for more.

I'm a lactation consultant. Agree with PP that this language shift is not happening "on the ground" in actual support settings, but is endemic now in written communications and especially on SM. There are a handful of prominent UK LCs and they all use 'inclusive' language now. The word mother has basically been banned. I'd say the shift has been in the past 6 months. I'm sure lots of people are uncomfortable with it but no one challenges it.

I use exclusively woman-centred language in my own written materials and will continue to do so.

@AskingQuestionsAllTheTime the first thing it made me think of was the sport of curling...

I have been running breastfeeding support groups for many years in my liberal and diverse corner of London. I am not a member of LLL and I have never not once not ever come across women who used the term chestfeeding or insisted on pronouns.
Lots of lesbian couples, very few mums who had adopted babies or were relactating for other reasons. No trans identified males. It’s not a thing in the vast majority of RL breastfeeding support Settings but as always it’s happening in literature and conferences and training. Top down trickle.

Hardbackwriter
if you call new mothers 'pushing people' what do you call women who gave birth through caesarean?!

Mothers?

The first people I would think of as "pushing people" would be the ones who are employed in Japan to cram as many passengers as possible onto the trains in the rush-hour. I think they are called Oshiyas.

The other thing that would come to mind would be people who force their way in where they are neither welcome nor necessary, but that's more "pushy" than "pushing".

I now call this out every fucking time I see it. It's HUGELY disrespectful to women. I support transmen because they're women. but only to an extent; the moment you abdicate from the female struggle, I'm afraid you've lost my wholesale support and I won't stand for female-centric language being censored to "include" you.

I thought that these organisations are trying to normalise breastfeeding and appeal to women of demographics that would lean heavily towards bottle feeding?

For someone who is not a middle class, navel gazing person from the SE, they might as well scream “Yes, breastfeeding is just as hippy dippy, crunchy and weird as you first thought” by refusing to speak plain fucking English.

They get it on training days too and in their own media.

The practising midwife has a policy something along the lines of using gender neutral language a certain number of times in every article they publish.

The believers are not experiencing much open resistance and so it is getting pushed through at every level. The more this goes on the more confident genderists become and the more those who believe that reality and sex specific language matters are afraid to speak.

The newspeak appears more in written language at the moment I think and less in spoken language at the front line of maternity and breastfeeding support.

Inthinknit's because they read twitter 'outraged' feedback and think it is what people genuinely think, rather than understanding that twitter is a very small amount of people who shout very loudly. Someone needs to tell them most people aren't on twitter.

LittleTiger007

I also have secondary school age children and the emergence of gender ideology in this age group has been dramatic imo.

Like you say, it has even reached yr 7 (11 year olds).

I think it has really exploded during lockdown.

Since going back in September my DC have noticed it, the oldest remarks that exactly as you say, no one but no one would openly admit to being straight. There is much discussion of “how bi we all are because of how we dress, dye our hair, act etc”

Youngest has discovered that suddenly many classmates are “non binary” and has had a trans talk in RSE which was summarised as “try to accept trans people and be really careful what you say around them because it is really easy to offend them...”

Oldest never had a trans talk and didn’t have any non binary friends in lower school.

Interesting that the older age group are mainly “bi” and the younger ones are mainly “non binary” and refer to themselves as “it”.

Just as no child aged 11-15 can’t call themselves straight anymore. It’s cool and only accepted to say that you are bi-curious or identify as binary and undetermined at this stage. 🤦‍♀️

I have many gay/lesbian friends. I am not homophobic or transphobic however we should be able to call ourselves women or straight without feeling judged.
Only women can actually breastfeed folks. This is craziness.

100% what you said UppityPuppity.

Some transmen who have not had any surgery could still potentially breastfeed, but as they see themselves as men, would object to being called mothers. They also object to the term ‘breastfeeding’ and use ‘chestfeeding’ instead.

They object to being called mothers, but how are they not mothers?

Why should their discomfort about the use of words - despite being willing to conceive, carry, labour, birth and feed a baby, mean that important and accurate words for - woman, mother, breast, be removed from everyone else?

The Call the Midwife Christmas special included a section with a woman who had suffered seven miscarriages and was very fearful approaching her birth. The midwife said to her "you are a mother, and you have been for many years". It was lovely and I hope SANDSUK took note.

It's incredibly important to hang on to our language. I am fearful that the future will see a downgrading of maternity pay, perhaps there might be 2-4 weeks gestational leave for birthing parents to recover and parental leave for everyone else to include adoption leave and new parents of babies acquired through surrogacy.

Women and babies will be the losers.

An old midwife saying - it takes nine months to make a baby and nine months to recover. Of course many if not most women will feel well recovered before then, but there is a lot going on internally like restoring iron stores (you can have a normal Hb and still have low ferritin levels, this will make a woman more vulnerable to anaemia in her next pregnancy until ferritin levels are back to normal), and ligaments and pelvic floor muscles regaining strength as well as mothers who are still breastfeeding and need to maintain a good diet and plenty of rest if possible.

I tend to observe that the women who are keen on the kind of inclusivity which disempowers women have been themselves oppressed and so their natural urge is towards appeasement and avoidance of conflict in order to keep safe. It is preemptive submission.