I am an elderly man. I cannot understand transgender ideology ...

Good luck 9toenails. You have regularly popped up in threads so I hope you get answers. Because we’d all like to see them.

Maybe our other male regulars will come on and give you their perspective. I’d love to see them all on one thread. But they are not so young, they are mature males who sometimes project their experiences as fitting all trans people. Still, it would be good.

OP I don't think being an elderly man is an issue here.

You have logic. Hence, the crazy appears crazy to you.

Don't try to understand it, but if you can fight things like loss of safe spaces for women, by writing to your MP, please do.

Have lost the plot slightly on where the government are with all this.

skyliner

I doubt any FWR regulars will report and hopefully mumsnet wont delete (cos its stupid reason to delete 😒)

But yawn used to be a deletable offence on here

Just a heads up in case it disappears 🙂

Mumof.. what is the meaning of ''strawman'' and ''steelman'' (in this context)? I think the English language is rich and varied but seems incomprehensible regarding transgender ideology.

But always, always, always this feeling trumps the physical body. This feeling trumps the sexed body. Specially if it is a man who feels they are a woman

However this only applies to feelings about what sex you are. Feelings about your ethnicity , age, occupation or qualifications are not valid apparently.

So I’m not allowed to identify as a 70 year old and claim my state pension. Or as an airline pilot and fly a passenger plane.

Even though I have dressed as a 70 year old for 20 years / lived as a pilot for even longer and always write “ pilot “ as my occupation on forms.

I have no idea why no one considers these identities as just as valid.

It's easy, you just have to redefine what a woman is:

"According to Butler's theory, gender is essentially a performative repetition of acts associated with male or female. Currently, the actions appropriate for men and women have been transmitted to reproduce a social atmosphere that both maintains and legitimizes a seemingly natural gender binary.[22] Consistently with Butler's acceptance of the body as a historical idea, Performative Acts suggests that our concept of gender is seen as natural or innate because the body "becomes its gender through a series of acts which are renewed, revised, and consolidated through time".[22]

Trying not to strawman... trying not to strawman... failed- all I can see from this is that being a woman has something to do with being dainty and submissive and nurturing? Anyone able to steelman the argument/definition?

Yawn.

The closest I have got to understanding is this...

There is a feeling in the head about whether one is a man or a woman. This feeling may be at odds with the actual sexed body, the feeling may only be at odds on a Tuesday for example. Or it may come at a very convenient time from a cynics perspective.

But always, always, always this feeling trumps the physical body. This feeling trumps the sexed body. Specially if it is a man who feels they are a woman.

And of course some fish can change sex therefore humans can too.

The third thing I think is that this belief takes place in the part of the brain where religion also lives. We, as humans, need to have a belief... in God, in democracy, in the justice system... in transgender ideology. When you think about it, each is as illogical as the next.

"Trans women are women" is itself transphobic gobbledygook.

It removes a protected characteristic, namely that of being trans, wrongly and confusingly, denying a minority right to their own minority status.

It also suggests to young people that we as a species can easily, without medical consequences and with no pushback from society flip our sex. We can't.

I call it out whenever I hear it.

Try this thread, OP:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4117149-Im-a-young-feminist-I-cannot-understand-your-Gender-Critical-positions

It will illustrate the lack of intellectual rigour of the pro-trans ideologists and provide you will much of the statistical and research material you will need to argue a gender critical corner.

I am a not so elderly man. I understand the ideology. Understanding does not mean agreeing with it. I want women to be able to use changing rooms and have medical examinations without fear, and women's competitive sport to be fair competition. I also want the differing medical and mental health outcomes and concerns of those who have transgender reassignment surgery from those who never transgender to be recognised.

Is that you, John Cleese!??

Of course, in trying to explain your viewpoint you will get all sorts of very trendy and knowledgeable people telling you you are a bigot, check your privilege and go get an education, okay Boomer!! Bet you voted Brexit, put down the Daily mail etc....

They will tell you you're wrong, ridicule you, try to scare you, tell you times have changed, clownfish etc....

But they won't have any actual substantial arguments, facts, statistics or logic.

Baffles me.... But what do I know, I am just a Karen and should die in a grease fire, apparently....