Discussion thread - GC? Radfem? Terminology we use, and does it matter?

That not they

I agree Chestnut, but for me real change can only come about when you reach critical mass. I don't think endless splintering of a movement they should ultimately centre the best interests of women and girls is that useful to progress. I think TRAs have scored some success by persuading Lib Fems that feminism isn't feminism if it isn't intersectional (by which they're not really concerned with racial inequalities or class/poverty, they mean if it doesn't centre transwomen). That's why I feel it's important not to be kettled into 'GC' feminism but to assert that genuine feminism, the 'feminism isn't feminism' feminism is about women and girls and only them.

There often aren't hard edges to these terms, because they are part of a tradition of thought and activism.

Feminist is quite broad and includes all kinds of different ideas, including some that are opposed to each other in a basic way. I would say "the women's movement" is even broader.

GC is quite specific and I would say describes a fairly specific viewpoint that can be found within several strands of feminism.

Radfem is a movement within feminism, which is also GC, at least generally speaking. But not everyone who is GC is a radfem.

I see the point that the term 'gender-critical feminist' is like rape-critical feminist, or a patriarchy-critical feminist. It's unnecessary, because feminism includes opposing genderism and rape and the patriarchy.

It's like saying I'm a vegan who doesn't eat meat.

But I accept being called GC because so many people who'd call themselves 'liberal feminists' or 'third-wave feminists' are not GC. Personally, I don't understand why someone who puts men's wishes above women's needs would bother to call herself a feminist.

That's like saying you're a vegan who does eat meat.

In real life I find no need to do this.

I just raise a feminist perspective in conversations when they come up.

Sometimes when I know people better I say. Well as a crazed feminist I think xyz. Only with people who respect me but are unlikely to consider a feminist perspective ever. I say it with a grin, look them in the whites of the eyes, and hit them with some sense.

As a woman approaching 50 in a male dominated workplace this has worked well. I wouldn't recommend it as a general tactic though!

Also. The certain topic has brought lots of women to FWR who aren't feminist in other stuff. Quite big stuff. So remember that on this board.

The infighting in radfem circles is off putting as well. Very much so. I was immersed for a while online and some real life stuff but there was a lot of stuff that caused splinter groups etc and was just not good to watch. It's classic leftist behaviour sadly. We are our own worst enemies way too often.

I think it is a tremendously powerful act for a women to unashamedly prioritize women in her politics, conversations, and general choices. It always unsettles the status quo.

I agree. It feels utterly right to me, but it can be utterly shocking to others.

'Feminist'.

Genuinely serious about the positivity of saying woman-centred in my outlook. I've even tried very hard to stick to pledges not to engage with threads on here that centre men's perspectives, even supportive men. I think it is a tremendously powerful act for a women to unashamedly prioritize women in her politics, conversations, and general choices. It always unsettles the status quo.

I've been interested in feminism all my adult life. But I don't know if I'd even describe myself that way, these days.

I want fairness. I want women and girls to be safe and respected.

I doubt I'd fit in any of the categories, really.

Maybe there can be a new one for oddbods?

I googled materialist feminism and found a whole lot of waffling about discursive construction and making women out of words. Started off grand then veered off into gender identities.

Which I would have less problem with if the implementation of the idea of gender identity weren't being performed in such a sexist fashion.

Trying not to be sexist is a bloody good way of putting it, actually.

I prefer to describe myself as trying to be not sexist.

I like ‘materialist feminist’ personally (I picked that up from Helen Joyce!)

I guess I see radical feminism as feminism - uprooting the patriarchy. I think splintering feminism helps to divide women.

Mostly consider myself to be a radical feminist even though my feminism didn't really get going until the late 80s early 90s. I didn't see why I should be treated any different to my older brother, which was going along fine for me, up until I got pregnant!

Have always been GNC so am critical of gender stereotypes that limit people but understand how women's bodies are key to understanding our oppression.

Although I don't agree with Greer all the time 'The Female Eunuch' and 'The Whole Woman' are excellent books for outlining the salient issues.

theconversation.com/friday-essay-the-female-eunuch-at-50-germaine-greers-fearless-feminist-masterpiece-147437

Socialist feminist. I’ve been one for going into four decades now and long before the term ‘gender critical’ was invented.

Im probably more rad than not

Rad makes more sense to me

I don't call myself a gc feminist because it's a tautology: if it ain't critical of the mechanism of women's oppression then it ain't feminism.

Also, not that keen on identity labels; I may say "speaking with my radfem hat on" or "I'm more into radical feminism" but I'm unlikely to say "I am a radical feminist" because it feels weird, and opens one up to challenge.

On the subject of new words, I'm inclined to think we'd do better to reclaim those which have been colonised, cos the buggers redefined feminism before they redefined woman, and we could play this game for eternity, constantly thinking of new words because the old and perfectly serviceable ones have been appropriated, but it'll never end and it'll never lead to liberation. It's just an ongoing reminder that we are denied the power of naming.

I'd love some good reading recommendations on radical feminism.

I always thought that Radfem simply meant that you recognised that there were societal factors in discrimination as opposed to liberal feminism which is simply about women without acknowledging the society effect.

Yes, changing society -the oppression of women lying in patriarchal control, supported by the way society is organised.

True, but my reality does nothing to kick against societal expectations.

IMO, actions are more important than words, and my actions are in line with the status quo, rather than actively working towards societal change - Radfem is too big a title for little old me!

I always thought that Radfem simply meant that you recognised that there were societal factors in discrimination as opposed to liberal feminism which is simply about women without acknowledging the society effect. So for liberal feminist, having a women do well proves everything is ok, when a group based analyst might suggest otherwise

It's nothing to do with personal relationships . Radical in wanting to change society not just promote individual women

I’m not really bothered.

I don’t think I qualify as proper Radfem because I’m happily married to a chap.

Yet at the the same time, I believe all feminism should be critical of sex stereotypes (ie gender) so GC is unnecessary unless you are talking about gender critical people who are non feminist?

Purity politics are boring and self defeating.

We won’t all agree all the time and that’s ok.
In fact, robust disagreement should be welcome. We aren’t a political party or a club with membership rules, so there is no right or wrong way to oppose the creeping authoritarianism of transgenderideology dogma.

I would not use the term gc in general as whilst I consider gender unhelpful the term can come across as critical of people for whom gender is important, and often for such people I feel things like sadness

I would call myself a feminist, and if pushed explain that my feminism is focused on women's rights and experiences. Women's. Not men's.