Ben Hunte BBC article about puberty blocker ban

That would surely be a huge plus as happily you seem content in your life.

The thing is, they cannot acknowledge they know very little about this current cohort. Ever. It always reverts to projection of their own experience, fair enough. That is to be expected. But at least be mature enough to acknowledge the differences.

Yes. The other thing is many of us are old enough to have seen wave after wave of damaging, self-destructive behaviour in teen girls

Agreed. Mine was early teens, gender disphoria followed by an eating disorder. All that I kept to myself.

Then there were other members of my family cutting.

Now it is my teen's friends who certainly prove the 'cluster' effect (60-70% identifying as trans in a group). And it is again, being replicated in my friends teen's groups.

How this is being portrayed as 'normal' numbers and the effects 'hand waved' based on some TV specials and anecdotal conversations is quite shocking! Luckily, because of the amazing women on this board, people are reading these posts and see exactly the disconnect of what is actually happening in families and schools around the UK.

And no. There is still no research that positrans can present that adequately describes what parents of teenagers can actually see happening and that adequately proves that affirming medical treatment improves these young females lives. The rhetoric is always from a male perspective and always reverts to 'trauma' and suicide.

If anyone is complaining about BH encouraging suicide ideation then they only respond to specific guideline violations. I pulled mine from section 3 (accuracy) and 9.3.2.

Actual stats on youth suicide are here:

www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/content/view/ACA727371498065C7B8ABB80054E13BE/S2056472420000332a.pdf/children_and_young_people_who_die_by_suicide_childhoodrelated_antecedents_gender_differences_and_service_contact.pdf

5 out of 146 suicides in 2014 to 2016 were trans. I can find no evidence any of them were distressed by lack of PBs.

The Samaritans guidelines on suicide reporting are helpful. The one on young people talks about encouraging suicide contagion and the main one has lots of Don'ts that BH does.

Apologies if I'm repeating other's points, it's a long thread.

Yes. It’s v. annoying when TRAs pop up saying ‘I bet you’ve never even met a trans person’ when there are 30 teenagers, mostly female, in a single year group in your kid’s school.

I've submitted a complaint to the BBC about the suicide stuff but ran out of room to include the ridiculous bias of the article.

www.bbc.co.uk/editorialguidelines/guidelines/impartiality/guidelines

If anyone fancies doing one the BBC guidelines are above. My outline was:

Violates BBC guidelines 4.3.6

Gender GP and Adrian Harrop are not experts in Gender Dysphoria. Their quotes are not balanced by factual information, for example: the latest research from the Tavi which shows that there is no evidence PBs improve MH:

We identified no changes in psychological function, quality of life or degree of gender dysphoria.

.....or any mention of the loss of height and bone density caused by PBs:

pubertal suppression reduced growth that was dependent on puberty hormones, i.e. height and BMD. Height growth continued for those not yet at final height, but more slowly than for their peers so height z-score fell. Similarly for bone strength, BMD and BMC increased in the lumbar spine indicating greater bone strength, but more slowly than in peers so BMD z-score fell.

www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.12.01.20241653v1.full-text

Violates BBC guidelines 4.3.12

By not mentioning the GMC rulings against Gender GP. I hadn't scared up the links for this bit when I realised I was going to be way over.

I don’t think that positrans actually grasps that many of the people posting have this replicated experience

Yes. The other thing is many of us are old enough to have seen wave after wave of damaging, self-destructive behaviour in teen girls as an understandable primal scream on hitting puberty in a patriarchy in which a substantial proportion of men are violent abusers and sexual predators.

In my own teens it was eating disorders. A decade or two later as a young academic, what I saw instead among my female students was cutting and self harm. Now it's identifying as trans, lopping your breasts off, destroying your skeleton with blockers and destroying your reproductive system with testosterone.

To anyone who ever was a teenage girl herself, and has then watched younger women go through the same struggles and reach for similarly dysfunctional coping mechanisms, it's blindingly obvious what's going on when half a dozen or a dozen girls in the same year group suddenly announce they're trans.

My daughter’s friend group doesn’t have a single ‘straight heteronormative’ girl in it.

Same here OP. I don’t think that positrans actually grasps that many of the people posting have this replicated experience. There is a huge amount of teenaged females identifying as trans that are at the very least binding and waiting to get referred. I am quite confident that they only broadly share the same experience as this poster. But it will not be acknowledged.

So positrans, you didn’t have blockers, but as you’ve pointed out on other threads, you pass completely and nobody knows you’re trans unless you tell them. So no blockers for you, but it all worked out great in the end. However children now must absolutely be given puberty blockers because otherwise they won’t ever pass, can never be happy and likely won’t make adulthood due to the huge risk of suicide.

Something’s not quite right here...

In fairness I do have quite an impressive beard these days (apologies for moment of levity!)

I have been thinking for hours about Positran's question.

What would be worse: having a deep voice and a beard or not being able to enjoy sex, orgasm and the closeness that goes with it.

Frankly, I'd rather put up with the former than lose the latter.

"If you are under 16 years old and are currently receiving puberty blockers
If you are aged below 16 years and are currently receiving puberty blockers, your access to medication will not be automatically withdrawn.The UCLH/ LTH team and the Gender Identity Development Service at the Tavistock and Portman will conduct a clinical review of your case, working with you and your parents/carers to make sure you fully understand the treatment and any side effects.These clinical reviews will occur in early 2021and we will be in touch to arrange this in due course."

From a link in xanthangum's link above.

Surely, the Tavi should have been certain that those they started down the medical pathway ALREADY fully understand the treatment and side effects of the drugs? This should have been done BEFORE starting treatment, surely? Or is it an arse covering exercise for the under 16s already in the system seeing as the court deemed them unlikely to be able to give informed consent?

I have no idea which thread (s?) to post this on and we probably don’t need another separate one so I’m going for this one as both Hunte’s piece and this one for Family Law Week were published on the same day:

www.familylawweek.co.uk/site.aspx?i=ed216529

The author is pro trans has collaborated on seminars with GIDS, according to her biography (www.coramchambers.co.uk/bianca-jackson/ ) but nonetheless, she does have a proper understanding of how this judgement fits into the work of the family courts, unlike Hunte or Jollyon. Interesting to see a more realistic take from the ‘Other side’.

tavistockandportman.nhs.uk/about-us/news/stories/update-gids-judicial-review-and-timetable-clinical-reviews-22-december-2020/

"has today sought permission to appeal "

is it a woman thing to have more empathy for the children who are facing lifelong medication and surgery for a self-diagnosed condition?

I felt terrible when I found out that the little girl that I had known for years was planning to have a double mastectomy and is now seeing the changing effects of testosterone on their body. This is going to stay with this person forever.

I was only just learning how to look after myself at their age - away from home for the first time, trying to navigate life and not do too many stupid things (there were quite a few) but I survived (just - there was a close call) into proper adulthood.

Does it make men feel horrid when they think of the health effects ahead? Maybe I am a little sensitive - I get an 'ouch' feeling when one of my children hurts themselves - apparently it is something to do with the cells from the baby passing back through the placenta into the mother - I've forgotten the term for now.

Someone at the BBC should write a story on ‘journalists’ writing one sided biased pieces using so-called experts and sources...

Complain. As a correspondent he should be better than this. Quoting Harrop and Webberley as though they are responsible experts won’t get past their complaints process.

The surgeon obviously didn't ensure that their patient fully understood how the surgery was going to turn out.

"And if their gender identity is insistent, persistent and consistent by the onset of puberty, we can be almost completely sure that it is fixed. At that point, we move, in some cases, to puberty blockers"

People would definitely have said as a child that I was rejecting my gender identity as I didn't play with dolls and wanted to wear trousers etc. This was still very consistent and fixed by the time of puberty, I wasn't happy about growing breasts and having periods. These feelings were insistent. I did not feel like a girl.

This was persistent and is consistent now. I don't wear a bra, I have a shaved head, prefer wearing men's aftershave to perfume and strongly believe I should be paid 20% more than I am. I don't conform to lots and lots of female stereotypes.

I don't feel however that my "gender identity is wrong". I do however feel like and know that I don't conform to sexist stereotypes based on my biological sex. This is fine with me. This hasn't changed since I was a child and won't change.

What did change is that I grew the fuck up and realised my biological sex would stay the same but I still didn't ever have to conform to the stereotyping. I am now very fond of my female body despite not liking periods and finding my breasts annoying when wearing clothes. But now I am older - I love being a woman for the fact that I can orgasm, give birth and breastfeed. It is worth it all but I never would have understood that as a child. Puberty ironically helped me develop so I understood it.

If an adult had taken all this away from me based on my earlier feelings (and this is the basis of the court judgement, children aren't capable of informed consent for this, argue it all you fucking want but it makes you look extremely sinister) I would now feel betrayed and let down and actually a victim of abuse.

No proper sexual functions or fertility based on the fact adults decided I persistently, consistently and insistently said I wasn't a girl at the age of 13 or whatever.

The fact that people don't understand that is so concerning (and I'll say it again, sinister).

He finished his degree in neuroscience at Nottingham Uni.

Not quite. University of Nottingham has a Malaysian campus.

From his Linked in:
"Since studying a Neuroscience degree on an all-expenses scholarship in Malaysia, I have been fortunate enough to work in some amazing roles. From being Google's youngest Strategy Manager, to jumping into journalism and becoming the BBC’s first LGBT Correspondent."

That said, the "all-expenses scholarship" sounds impressive. And then a full scholarship for Masters Degree in Journalism at City. . And followed up with Google and an internal award for "fantastic public speaking".

uk.linkedin.com/in/benhunte

So why is his journalism so poorly researched, and well...lazy.

I would have hoped someone with a neuroscience degree would have had some understanding of the potential impact of hormones on adolescent brains.

I watch lots of animal rescue programmes, and see many terrified trapped foxes rescued - after they are released they are calm and relieved. I've also seen my cat hiss or growl when she is scared. I just can't get over someone coming across a fox in that situation and beating it to death. And not only that. I mean, if I'd somehow done that in a moment of fear or madness, I'd be so horrified and ashamed. But no, he announced it on Twitter, as a kind of funny story?
I can't see him now without thinking of that.

The Boxing Day fox slayer has tweeted that the Tavistock is appealing the decision.

For make, read male, several times. Sigh.