Ben Hunte BBC article about puberty blocker ban

Not only that, but we have no way of knowing whether any of the children who will be transgender adults will be the type of transgender adults who want to undertake hormone treatment and surgery. We know there are many, many trans adults who don’t change their bodies in any way medically - Alex Drummond for example - and have no intention of doing so, and argue that they don’t need to to justify their trans existence. Why are we denying these children of following that pathway also? The pathway of expression of many, many adults we hear about?

The only possible answer is that gender dysphoria is a requirement of being trans, which is an idea rejected by many activists and Stonewall and earns those trans people who claim as such the derogatory label “truscum”.

Can anyone explain how we know these children won’t all eventually be the future Alex Drummonds of the world?

Excellent questions from TheGreatSloth.

statsgeek1 I, too, am interested in your thoughts on Gillick Competence and how you think it should be applied.

I will also never fail to be amazed by those who transition as adults who seemingly have no understanding that not every child who claims to be trans will want to transition as an adult. Yes, a small percentage do. They are the ones who transition as adults. However, we know that the majority of children, when left to go through puberty, will desist.

What is the justification for putting children on a medical pathway when chances are the majority would ultimately reconcile with their bodies?

And why is there no acknowledgement that the current cohort of girls and young women in their teens and 20s currently transitioning is an entirely new phenomenon?

statsgeek1 what is your solution for preventing future situations like Keira Bell? She's not alone, you know. There are plenty of detransitioners out there on YouTube if you care to look, so please don't tell me she's an isolated case.

Probably feeling a little lonely over there on that side of history, eh?

No one advocates doing absolutely nothing for these kids. What we advocate for is appropriate mental health support to deal with what their going through. The fact child, adolescent and youth mental health services all around the world are underfunded, understaffed and ill-equipped to deal with these patients should not mean that they should be set on a lifelong pathway of medicalisation that results in physical harm instead.

Why is no one at the BBC ranting about lack of access to mental health services for this apparent huge cohort of suicidal kids? After all that’s the treatment for suicidal intent: mental health support.

AND BY Gender GP . There is nothing that can be done to stop that

Parents buying hormones online for children who cannot consent deserve social services at their door. You do something to a child when the child can't consent (the words of 3 high court judges) then that's abuse, pure and simple.

I wouldn't be so sure that there's nothing that can be done to stop it. Maybe they can't stop the GenderGP ghouls from operating, but there are options to stop the kids and their parents here in the UK accessing the experimental drugs.

Easier to come and blame/take it out on women though than to admit that the useless morons they championed that are in charge of these kids have fucked up big time.

. We might not like it but, ignoring them is an awful dereliction of duty.As it stands children will be likely to be treated in accordance with WPATH (AUS, CAN, NTH.FRA, and DEU, ) AND BY Gender GP . There is nothing that can be done to stop that. We are against the medical profession but we need a way ahead.

Thegreatsloth, this is an excellent question you ask but I doubt you will get an answer. I really think very few people have read the judgment let alone have the ability to pick out parts they actually disagree with. It’s ironic seeing some posters talk about standards of health care for trans children - this judgment ensures that trans kids get the same high quality care as anyone else ... care they weren’t getting.

You are an adult. Surgery on adult tissue is vastly different to surgery on prepubertal tissue. Even the surgeons themselves, Marcie Bowers and Jess Ting admit the surgery is experimental.

I completely agree these children should be left alone, and I don’t see how leaving them alone means “leave them alone to have their surgery unchallenged”.

Yoe need to look further afield to harm kids... good luck

Why do people talk like this? What is it suppose to achieve?

'Caredune' - It is not badly resarched. It just asks for the opinions of parents who have children affected by the decision. Your want of a stop of any treatment is not a neutral act. No doubt trans people and their Dr's will continue to act in accordance with WPATH guideline that be via Gender GP OR A.n.OTHER

Yoe need to look further afield to harm kids... good luck

For those people who are horrified by the Bell judgment, what part of the judgment itself do you think is in error?

Do you think Gillick competence is not relevant at all in this specific context (puberty blockers used in the context of gender dysphoria rather than precocious puberty) ?

If so, what is it about this specific context which means this?

Or do you think Gillick competence should be irrelevant in all contexts (not just this specific one)?

If Gillick competence is irrelevant (either in all contexts or this specific context) what would you replace it with in that context?

Are you perhaps suggesting that a child’s mental competence to make decisions about say medical treatment in some contexts is utterly irrelevant?

If so how would that work? Are you envisaging all decision making power in that context being given to the child, regardless of competence - so that a child who is not mentally competent would nevertheless be empowered to make binding decisions about treatment? Perhaps on the basis of an age limit - say, anyone aged 11 or over can make binding decisions about medical treatment?

Or are you envisaging that all decisions about a child’s medical treatment in that context should always be removed from the child and made by someone else (who?) - so that for instance that person should always be able to require a child to take puberty blockers even if the child doesn’t want them, regardless of the child’s level of understanding? Or to have a blood transfusion when the child doesn’t want it?

You’re going to have to choose one of these two unattractive options if you reject the applicability of competence tests entirely in some (or all) contexts - which? Empower the child to make all decisions (maybe subject to an age limit), or take decision making powers out of the child’s hands & give them to someone else? (The whole point of a competence test is to avoid having to choose one of these options.)

If you think instead the judgment misinterprets the tests that should be applied to determine Gillick competence, where specifically do you think it has gone wrong?

What do you think the specific tests for demonstrating Gillick competence in this context should be?

What would the implications of these tests be for the other contexts where Gillick competence is applied?

Would these alternative tests also have implications for other areas where an age limit (rather than a competence test) is applied - such as a child’s ability to consent to sexual activity? Or to the age of criminal responsibility?

What do you think the point of competence tests is; and why do we have them in some contexts, and age limits in others?

Saying ‘I hated my male puberty’ doesn’t even begin to answer these questions, and that’s an understatement.

In particular, given the huge number of girls identifying as transgender and the miniscule number of adult women transitioning, it seems that many of them can go on to live happy lives as adults without any interference with their bodies as adolescents.

Leave the kids alone indeed, it's awful how determined people are to destroy safeguarding, and seem to think ''trans kids'' deserve a horrifically lower standard of care than any other kid in this country.

Please just leave those children alone.

You took the words right out of the judge's mouth there. Sorry three judges.

Sorry. Did I misunderstand? Did you mean that you imagined them all?

Typesofcatalogue

Why don't you direct your energies to the causes of gender dysphoria?

Instead of telling little kids they can change sex?

Why have all these children developed gender dysphoria? What's causing dozens of girls in one year group to develop it?

Do you have any answers?

Imagine, the BBC have presented anti trans articles without rbuttal for months.

Have they? I must have missed them all. Can you post some links?

Imagine, the BBC have presented anti trans articles without rbuttal for months. One article with facts has generated so much disgust really surprises me. The only way to go is to support trans fok. xx

He will also reach adulthood with normal growth, bone density, fertility and be able to have sex and achieve orgasm,

And if he isn’t able to have sex because he is so embarrassed to let anyone see him naked or even see or touch his genitals because he is so disgusted by his masculinity? What about the ones that have to endure that pain? Or do you not think they exist? Or that they can just be cured with some counselling?

'nodbadconsidering'

Why would you be cross with the surgeons? i grew up as a trans child in the late 1970's and was taken to Alder Hay in 1979 to 'help me'. Jeepers can you imagine what they did? I transitioned under Exeter GIC in 2014 and surgically under Brighton shortly after and now live my life without your interference. Please just leave those children alone.

Oh I'm just perimemopausally putting the house to bed and failing to resist temptation (they includes the quality street).

You are making me hungry. Orange and purple for the win.

We don't have to 'tell' any parents or kids anything. If the ''professionals'' had done their jobs properly in the first place, this wouldn't be happening. Direct your anger at them.

That not they, honestly I'll get to grips with auto-correct one day

Oh I'm just perimemopausally putting the house to bed and failing to resist temptation (they includes the quality street).