Ben Hunte BBC article about puberty blocker ban

I find it hugely concerning when adults are trying to live a life of “passing” vicariously through a random cohort of children, and be damned with the consequences for them.

Adults who, based on their own posts, have had children of their own, so presumably a sex life too, yet would happily deny that to others.

Yes, NotBad, I think it takes a special kind of confidence to consider presenting that evidence!

It’s shocking that people see what has happened to Jazz and think “yep, that’s the future for all these kids, let’s get cracking.”

• this question was disingenuous. Obviously I realise that they are very much think that medical transition is a much better outcome than desisting and don’t give a crap about the side effects and impacts on personal relationships etc.

Just anecdotally my Dd's friendship group (15 yr olds) is a mixture of 50/50 girls and boys.

There's one Trans boy in the group who been 'trans' since 13. Wears a binder but no medication. They all call him 'he' because he just passes really well. It honestly feels right calling him 'he'. He's not very vocal about being trans, it's never a big part of the general conversation, he just honestly gets on with things. Out of the whole group he seems one of the happiest. However I'm aware I only see a small part of things.

The rest of the girls are 'straight' hetro-normative currently.
There's one boy who says he was gay, then bi, now not so sure.
One boy announced he was a-sexual but that's just fizzled into nothing.

One time my dd announced to me that she was boring because she'd realised she was only 'straight'. What a weird state of affairs!

My DS's friendship group is currently all boys (13 yrs) and not one of them has expressed any interest in gender fluidity (yet).

No point to this post really. I guess I'm just thinking aloud.

@NotBadConsidering "A male child going through male puberty is as normal and expected as any other part of human development. We know from evidence that if such a child is left alone he will end up comfortable with his own body."

I went through a testosterone puberty. It made my gender dysphoria considerable worse. You'll find it's the same for almost every trans adult who didn't have access to blockers. If puberty makes you comfortable with your body, why do people like me even exist?

Many children are ill at ease with puberty, Positrans. I was. I would probably have been trans if I’d been born later. I never felt ‘like a women’ and I dressed ‘like a boy’.

The fact I’m now happy as a woman, isn’t because I ‘wasn’t really trans’, it’s because growth into one’s adult form (man or woman) is a process. Puberty and the changes of puberty is a huge part of that process.

Isn’t the statistic that the vast majority of children with gender dysphoria desist? I’d say discomfort - sometimes quite extreme - is normal.

And like many have said, particularly for girls, if they do go on to decide to transition, they'll be in a better position to do so if they HAVEN'T taken puberty blockers. They'll be taller, and genital surgery will be less complex.

And for boys, we know how much more difficult genital surgery is for those who've taken puberty blockers, as in the sad case of Jazz Jennings.

Is the Tavistock's appeal going to be "yes, we know these treatments don't have a good result, and there's life long side effects, but we want to continue giving them to children anyway"?

And if their gender identity is insistent, persistent and consistent by the onset of puberty, we can be almost completely sure that it is fixed. At that point, we move, in some cases, to puberty blockers

Physical puberty in girls can start between the ages of 9-12 - many of the teenage girls who are questioning their gender identity are actually in the 13-16 year age group and have gone through their physical puberty as puberty sparks a huge amount of neural development on which many, many child and young people are forming their identities, uncertain and often feeling anxious and depressed.

There's really very little understanding of puberty or adolescent brain development, which is very worrying.

There are many, many stories of people who found their identity to be in flux in adolescence and it only became 'fixed' as they came out of their late teens.

Puberty isn't and nor should it be optional. Its vital for physical and mental development. A normal part of life. It sucks but you at least know all your mates are going through the same thing. Theres not a man or woman alive that doesn't have an embarrassing puberty story. We should be helping kids cone to terms with it. Not medicating it. Cos its going to be a million times worse when all their mates are coming out the other side and they are still stuck in the body of a child.

All the adults advocating for it have relationships husbands wives children and careers something not acheivevable if your mental development is stunted. Its easy for them to say life would have better but do you honestly think they wish their kids didn't exist like that? Cos with blockers they wouldn't have been able to have them.

Its not a disease.

A male child going through male puberty is as normal and expected as any other part of human development. We know from evidence that if such a child is left alone he will end up comfortable with his own body.

He will also reach adulthood with normal growth, bone density, fertility and be able to have sex and achieve orgasm, all of which aren’t possible if puberty blockers are given. Any decisions regarding treatment can then be adequately consented to knowing what will be given up if this person proceeds. Surgery would then be carried out on adult tissue, not experimental surgery on prepubertal tissue.

I find it hugely concerning when adults are trying to live a life of “passing” vicariously through a random cohort of children, and be damned with the consequences for them.

And in terms of dealing with the distress of children who might not be able to get puberty blockers,
someone could explain to them that it's not a tragedy?
For girls that want to be seen as boys, there was very little to be gained from blockers anyway, even by the logic of those within the system. I would think that puberty blockers do little to help girls later pass as boys/men, particularly as blockers are likely to result in a reduction in final height, whereas to pass as boys/men they'd want to be as tall as possible?

It has always seemed strange to me that girls were put on a pathway that was basically designed for boys.

10 years ago, children in gender clinics were not given puberty blockers at anywhere near the rate they are now, and we are being led to believe that children now have distress that can’t be managed as it was 10 years ago?

There weren't swathes of suicides then linked to gender dysphoria either. Adults are encouraging kids to feel suicidal for being denied a treatment pathway which has no solid evidence backing up its effectiveness.

Puberty is an essential, natural occurrence, no one needs to consent to it, like no one needs to consent to growing teeth, or growing taller. Ridiculous.

Can a trans girl understand the consequences of going through a testosterone puberty? The physical masculinisation of her body that will likely give her life long gender dysphoria, the constant issue of navigating a transphobic society with a broken voice and a large build? The extensive surgery she will likely need if she is to overcome some of those effects?

10 years ago, children in gender clinics were not given puberty blockers at anywhere near the rate they are now, and we are being led to believe that children now have distress that can’t be managed as it was 10 years ago?

It’s ridiculous. It’s basically the clinicians admitting they have lost all the skills needed to treat these children as they once were and they’ve become too reliant on avoiding the tough periods by papering over the cracks with puberty blockers.

Thanks to those who answered my questions. I really didn't think they'd try to take it further.

AH is a doctor. Surely he must have had training on suicide and risk management, which would include the Samaritans reporting guidelines, that are very clear about not suggesting single issues as causes for suicide and self harm. There is a real risk of suicide contagion, especially among young people. And I would wonder if this is increased among young people who are sensitive to other types of contagion.

'In October 2020, Emily's NHS psychotherapist wrote: "I am satisfied that Emily, with the ongoing support and guidance of her parents, has a good understanding about the potential side-effects of this treatment."'
I know that's just a quote, but for a treatment with such serious lifelong irreversible side effects, you'd want your capacity assessment really really clear as to what evidence you had that they could understand the issues.

And even if there was, there’s still the question of whether children can consent to it. The judges said children could still get puberty blockers if they could demonstrate understanding of the 8 points around consent.

If people are so sure it’s the right pathway, and these kids know what they want, there should be no problem with them demonstrating to a judge understanding of these 8 points then, should there?

i) the immediate consequences of the treatment in physical and psychological terms;
(ii) the fact that the vast majority of patients taking puberty blocking drugs proceed to taking cross-sex hormones and are, therefore, a pathway to much greater medical interventions;
(iii) the relationship between taking cross-sex hormones and subsequent surgery, with the implications of such surgery;
(iv) the fact that cross-sex hormones may well lead to a loss of fertility;
(v) the impact of cross-sex hormones on sexual function;
(vi) the impact that taking this step on this treatment pathway may have on future and life-long relationships;
(vii) the unknown physical consequences of taking puberty blocking drugs; and
(viii) the fact that the evidence base for this treatment is as yet highly uncertain

The Tavistock were told by three judges that they weren't acting properly. They were told children can't consent to experimental treatment. And they want to appeal that? I think the best thing would be for them to have a good fucking look at themselves and consider this whole mess they've caused, and maybe stop letting gobshite activists dictate how children should be treated.

They didn't even understand Gillick properly. Their answer to this ''treatment'' destroying sexual function was ''meh, the kids might be asexual anyway.'' There you go. It's justified sterilising CHILDREN, how many with autisim we don't fully know because no one wants to be honest, because there's a tiny chance they may have turned out to be asexual anyway

Pretty grim people are smugly defending that. I'd be fucking mortified to show my face in court again if I were them, after their last pathetic, flimsy performance where they couldn't answer a single question decently. Children deserve better than that shower of shit.