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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

What is womanly? What is manly?

66 replies

JellySlice · 13/12/2020 00:13

The attributes and behaviours which we describe as womanly or as manly are all generally positive things that both women and men can have/do, without diminishing their femininity or their masculinity.

So why is it that the terms womanly and manly are negative when applied to the other sex? Then they seem to have completely different meanings.

OP posts:
DidoLamenting · 13/12/2020 14:14

and my skinny, camp, gay friend covered the cyclist with his coat, and crouched in shirt sleeves next to him until the paramedics arrived, giving no indication that he was cold, not even a dramatic sigh of relief when he put his coat back on, he would certainly have been described as manly

Really? No disrespect to your friend but not in a million years would it occur to me to describe him or what he did as "manly"

"Kind", "thoughtful" "quick- thinking" "good in an emergency"

JellySlice · 13/12/2020 13:56

No, I'm not thinking about feminine and masculine, nor about passive stereotypes and powerful stereotypes.

It's about attributes that are seen positively in both women and men.

A skinny, camp, gay man might not be described as masculine, because he doesn't tick the stereotypes of masculinity. But on the bitterly cold winter day when we stopped to help a cyclist who had been knocked down by a car, and my skinny, camp, gay friend covered the cyclist with his coat, and crouched in shirt sleeves next to him until the paramedics arrived, giving no indication that he was cold, not even a dramatic sigh of relief when he put his coat back on, he would certainly have been described as manly.

'Manly' implies a man behaving in a positive way, regardless of his appearance, mannerisms or sexuality.

'Womanly' is more complicated, because it encompasses both the positive behaviours and some feminine stereotypes that make others feel comfortable.

But manly applied to a woman implies unwomanly, and womanly applied to a man implies unmanly - yet both describe positive attributes.

OP posts:
Datun · 13/12/2020 10:28

Yes, it's odd isn't it? Maybe it's another attempt to keep reinforcing gender boxes.

cluckandcollect · 13/12/2020 10:22

Marian Harcombe in The Woman in White is an 'unattractive' woman with a moustache — but she's the strong, intelligent, reliable heroine of the story. There's a long tradition of difficult, 'manly'* women in literature and drama. Katherina in The Taming of the Shrew is a good example of a woman with a brain who understands the way the word works and says so. Both she and Marian are held up for comparison with traditional dependent, romantic 'womanly' women.

  • I don't have any issue with calling a woman 'manly' in the traditional context of 'manly' meaning intelligent, capable, independent, self-determining and 'womanly' meaning nurturing, romantic, dedicated and dependent. Obviously what I'd really like to see is all sex stereotyping disappear from language completely, but feminists have been trying to expand the idea of what it is to be a woman for my entire life — and look where we are!
HecatesCatsInXmasHats · 13/12/2020 10:09

It's just short codes for sex role stereotypes, and staying within them.

Very much this

Male = active
Female = passive

Damaging to both

CatsCantCatchCriminals2 · 13/12/2020 10:03

I'm thinking of <a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connie_Sachs" target="_blank">Connie Sachss* in Tinker Tailer Soldier Spy...

Also..

That Connie in Spooks was a monster! What is it about that name?

WhereIsMyMojoGone · 13/12/2020 09:54

Never met a manly woman or a womanly man. Do you mean masculine and feminine? Surely that is to do with stereotypes?

(This reminds me of the white male privilege thread)?

ErrolTheDragon · 13/12/2020 09:50

It's just short codes for sex role stereotypes, and staying within them.

Babdoc · 13/12/2020 09:48

Well, it is all predicated on sexist stereotypes, isn’t it.
Womanly = weak, dim, frivolous, overemotional, into fashion and babies
Manly = rugged, aggressive, high earning, emotionally repressed, domestically useless.
Poisonous nonsense that has held both sexes (but overwhelmingly women) back from achieving their full potential.

BernardBlackMissesLangCleg · 13/12/2020 09:26

in general in literature for example, masculine women are treated with more approval than feminine men. I'm thinking of Connie Sachs in Tinker Tailer Soldier Spy, or Jo March.

feminine men tend to be seen as a bit sinister - like Cedric in Love in a Cold Climate.

anyway

yes humans are often not particularly tolerant of people who are different - what's your point?

CatsCantCatchCriminals2 · 13/12/2020 09:26

Are we in "throwing like a girl" territory?

HecatesCatsInXmasHats · 13/12/2020 09:17

ConfusedConfusedConfused

highame · 13/12/2020 07:39

The term would be A masculine woman, haven't got a clue what you're talking about

JellySlice · 13/12/2020 07:36

Not the characteristics, the adjective itself. 'A manly woman', for example.

OP posts:
ChestnutStuffing · 13/12/2020 04:05

Like "The Womanly Art of Breastfeeding?"

I'm not sure I would agree with your premise that every characteristic that someone might think of as manly or womanly is negative when applied to the other sex. Some are but not all.

DidoLamenting · 13/12/2020 00:42

I'm struggling to think of any occasion I've described anyone as womanly or manly.

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