Can we discuss white , male priveledge,?

It can never be a privilege to be destitute. It’s obscene to start allotting the destitute degrees of privilege.

OP - starting a thread on male or white priviledge is often a disaster on here because within seconds, you're going to be told (as you have been )how hard done by white boys are.

To be very clear, the children who do worst at school are white boys on free school meals. White girls on free school meals do only marginally better. Overall, children on free school meals do less well. In this country, because white people make up the majority, they also make up the majority of families on free school meals. I spent time tracking down the report but irritatingly didn't bookmark it. Will attempt to find it again later.

As a PP pointed out, if you consider male vs female where a woman with the exact same socio-economic background just by pure coincidence isn't as successful as the man... [haha] then you can see male privilege.

There are lots of highly impoverished/destitute white men in this country. They aren’t privileged This is 100% true. What's also 100% true is that compared to highly impoverished/destitute black men in this country, they ARE privileged. For example, white impoverished man is more likely to be able to access work. Is less likely to be considered a threat when homeless. etc.

There is no doubt that finding solutions to help those of very poor socio-economic backgrounds needs to happen. And that that will absolutely often mean supporting white boys and men. But that does not mean that white privilege or white male privilege doesn't exist.

‘Exactly privilege is an advantage a person has by birth.’

That isn’t what privilege means.

‘If white male is the default then being born a white male is an advantage, even over white women of similar economic status.’

Nobody is really disputing that. It doesn’t change the fact that wealthy upper class people are by definition privileged and working class people are not.

The problem perhaps has arisen from trying to fit a whole host of different issues into some kind of intersectional model, as if by sliding around a whole bunch of different identity attributes you can explain homelessness, the refugee crisis and the Tory Cabinet.

I doubt it's because their white, girl, classmates have some sort of privilege they don't have. Happy to be corrected.

I think girls are often advantaged in Early Years/Primary education...little girls are socialized to be better able to "sit nicely", "colour neatly" etc.
I think some boys are then put off and struggle to catch up.

Helping boys do better at school I think also helps girls educational chances because it's a lot easier to learn when there are less DC being disruptive at the back of the class (often because they are embarrassed they don't know the answers/can't read the text etc.)

Exactly privilege is an advantage a person has by birth.
So if you are born to rich family- you have wealth privilege
It has to be by birth, so just saying having a good job and money is privilege is not necessarily true for those who are truly self-made.

I think only almost universal privilege is male privilege in today’s world as there are less than a handful of matriarchal societies in existence.

If white male is the default then being born a white male is an advantage, even over white women of similar economic status. And it is the default. I'd highly recommend reading Invisible Women on this, if you haven't already.

Yes. Men are more likely to be privileged than women.

But privileged people, i.e. those who have money and a good job are always privileged.

It therefore makes no sense to compare being male to wealth and occupation when defining what privilege is.

While white men might be in a minority there, they are certainly not oppressed in any way. If a white man were to work in India or China, his race wouldn’t pose an obstacle

Thats not true in China. I’ve witnessed racism against white and black people in China. In China, Chinese have the equivalent of white privilege in the UK.

it is the wealth and job themselves that are the privilege

And men are more likely to have higher paid jobs.

Disguise, not describe.

People seem to be prepared to make the concession that wealth and class might contribute to someone being in a privileged position, as if those are equivalent to arbitrary characteristics like skin tone or sex. They are not.

By definition wealth and class mean that you have more money, power and social influence than other people. That is what privilege means.

Being white or male might increase your level of wealth or give you a better job, but it is the wealth and job themselves that are the privilege. It is ridiculous for people who themselves have money and good jobs to complain about others who do. They are all as privileged as each other.

Referring to arbitrary characteristics as privilege is just a ruse to describe the actual privilege of money and particular occupations.

In western societies, the "default human" is assumed to be a white man, usually also straight and able-bodied. If you are not this default, even if you are not actively discriminated against, your specific issues may be neglected or seen as "special interest". For example, it used to be assumed that lactose intolerance was rare, because only white populations were studied (it's much more common among black and south-east Asian people).

Is that true of Eton School too?

White boys specifically do much worse academically than their female and non white counterparts.

I believe that is correct. But why is it like that?

I doubt it's because their white, girl, classmates have some sort of privilege they don't have. Happy to be corrected.

There needs to be an acknowledgment of sex there too though doesn't there Andy? You can't be a member of the Bullingdon Club unless you're male.

I agree with ClaireP20.
Why talk about white, male privelege, when you have millions of white males in the UK unemployed, living in poverty, thousands considering suicide and thousands living homeless on the streets.
What you should be discussing is more specific - the privelege of the white, establishment patriarchy, a product of the public school system, the Bullingdon Club. Former members of this club included - David Cameron, Boris Johnson, Jeremy Hunt, George Osborne, Nathaniel Rothschild, Harry Mount, Jason Gissing, plus many other politicians and royalty.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullingdon_Club

I find the term incredibly divisive, almost always misunderstood, and quite damaging. It encourages a colour-based 'us and them' hostility, while downplaying the benefits of being born middle-class or into relative prosperity, whatever your colour/ ethnic background.

This. It's why Critical Race Theory doesn't really work as an ideology. It's incredibly damaging. All identity politics is about us and them and who has it the worst.

We're 50% of the population, and will be born into the same social class as our male equivalent, so the disadvantages in being female can be shown really clearly; e.g. managerial positions, make-up of government, FTSE 100 companies, TV panel shows, sport (less funding for girls sport, FA denying women and girls a place to play), DV and crime etc.

Says it all. If there wasn't a disadvantage to being female and an advantage to being male there wouldn't be these disparities.

^highlighting

It is purposely wasteful of womens time to discuss white, male privilege on MN FWR.

It is best discussed on MN Dadsnet or MN Chat.

Lets spend our time hight; lighting and discussing FGM, Domestic Violence, protecting Women Rights in Legislation, the gender (sex) pay gap.

Women (of all colours and ethnicities) aren't a minority in the UK (or anywhere). We're 50% of the population, and will be born into the same social class as our male equivalent, so the disadvantages in being female can be shown really clearly; e.g. managerial positions, make-up of government, FTSE 100 companies, TV panel shows, sport (less funding for girls sport, FA denying women and girls a place to play), DV and crime etc.

Lots of really sensible responses on this thread. Acknowledging that class and place of birth have an enormous influence of actual privilege is important. Social mobility is at its lowest; the poor white boy growing up in a home with no books and with parents that have never worked does not experience much privilege.

I agree that advantage is a better term than privilege.

I find the term incredibly divisive, almost always misunderstood, and quite damaging. It encourages a colour-based 'us and them' hostility, while downplaying the benefits of being born middle-class or into relative prosperity, whatever your colour/ ethnic background.

@malificent7 What did you want to get out of this thread? Are our views what you expected?

There are lots of highly privileged white men in this country.

There are lots of highly impoverished/destitute white men in this country. They aren’t privileged.

There are lots of not so impoverished white men in this country whose life chances are shit. They don’t have privilege.

This country has a long and inglorious history of impoverished/destitute white men and women - they weren’t privileged.

Yes - in a direct comparison between a poor white man and a poor black man - with exactly the same circumstances in life - the white man probably has it slightly easier. But the reality of life doesn’t work that way.

Telling people without privilege that they are privileged is wrong.

Racism is wrong. We all know it. We know most people agree it is wrong and should be called out whenever/wherever it manifests.

I wish people (politicians) would also sort out things the prevents equality of opportunity for all - which would unite all in this country irrespective of race - poverty, poor education, lack of aspiration etc.