Would you ok your son wearing a dress?

Neither of my DCs are really much into frilly clothing but both went through a tutu phase. DS was a bit jealous that the girls at preschool dance got to wear frilly skirts so brought the tutu along - as well as being sure to put on the "dancing skirt" for rocking to the radio at home. Nursery didn't see fit to express shock at him dressing up as Elsa while there but he also put his muslin comforter on his head to have "Elsa hair".

He does have SEN but I don't think it's got anything to do with having a "dancing skirt".
As he was 4 at the time, and we don't live in a completely macho society, nobody bullied him.
And his willy is intact.

Some people like wearing skirts, and dresses. Some people find them more comfortable, cooler or warmer or less rubbing or anything

I don't personally but I can accept that some people prefer them

I suspect it's people imposing rigid ideas in dress , that a boy can't wear a dress, will be more harmful to a persons identity and feeling of how well they fit a gender expectation. The more you build boxes around people the more people will reject those boxes.

I don't really get why older boys would want to wear skirts? I get that girls wearing trousers is useful because skirts ride up and can be impractical but why do boys want to wear skirts (obviously I understand if they're trans, into drag or whatever) but I don't really see the advantage day to day (which is why I'm always in trousers). Skirts and dresses are generally designed to show off the curves of a woman's body aren't they?
At 3/4/5 no problem, I get dressing up is fun. I remember seeing though on tv a man who wore a tight, short womans skirt and high heels to work everyday and I just didn't get it. High heels and short tight skirt just aren't comfortable IMO, why would a man want to wear them?? I get it might be a sexual fetish but then why wear it to work? I get the fun of drag or if you are trans but it was literally just his bottom half and I just couldn't really understand what the point was. I guess he just liked it which is fine, I just couldn't really understand why.

Most people have some opportunity to choose clothes that they like, at least to an extent.

Most people have limits on that, too. Which come from financial means, prescribed things like uniforms or dress codes, and social customs.

In our culture, which already offers far more variation than most as far as clothing choices, you can often (but not always) bend these expectations, or even subvert them, without a real penalty.

Usually, when people do bend and subvert thm, it's not because they have some burning desire to dress that way, or even any more because there is some really unfair disadvantageous expectation. (I'd say the main example of that is very sexualised women's clothing but it is possible to avoid those unless perhaps you are in the entertainment industry.)

People choose to bend and subvert the (rather lax) rules around clothing because they want to make a point about the rules, or be seen to be edgy. So that is also a choice, to corollary being that if you do it, people might think you have a particular attitude to rules.

There is a ton of flexibility in all of this. Unless a child is poor, they are not going to have a whole lot of experience with people telling them they need to wear x. y, or , and just get over themselves. School uniforms are by far going to be the most universal experience of that.

Then you have these parents telling their kids, oh, you are being oppressed by being forced to wear a uniform, by the fact that there is a dress code that disallows showing your belly button at school, by the social convention that men don't wear skirts. Somehow these things mean you can't express your true self.

It's no wonder you have a bunch of kids that think their preference for more culturally masculine or feminine clothing means something significant about their "identity", and it will damage them if they aren't able to indulge it whenever they like.

Having to make do with a certain amount of practicality and social conventions which we all know could be different, and realising that you are still ok is a generally positive experience in terms of maturity. And yes, social conventions may change, but there will always be social conventions - there isn't some utopia where we don't live within that kind of cultural environment.

But the idea that we have to control something that is very superficial is even worse

They grow out of it as they mature, or tone it down as they realise that they are themselves no matter what they wear, and other people are just themselves no matter what they wear.

This idea "we have to let kids choose whatever appeals or they aren't expressing themselves" is a terrible message in so many ways.

I am not commenting on that; only the fact that in today's society, it is not acceptable for boys to wear dresses

And I hope one day it will be acceptable. Because it's arbitrary

What does wearing a long piece of fabric that doesn't attach at the crotch have to do with "acting badly"? Also FWIW, the "normal values of society" for a long time were hardcore racism, sexism, homophobia etc so there are occasionally positive results of ignoring the status quo.
I did not say that a boy wearing a dress is acting badly. I was reacting to the poster who said that 'The idea of stopping your child from acting in a way they chose simply because other people might act badly as a result is a pretty crap way to bring up your child.'
And of course I realise that the "normal values of society" for a long time were hardcore racism, sexism, homophobia...'
I am not commenting on that; only the fact that in today's society, it is not acceptable for boys to wear dresses.

it's only not fine for a boy to wear a dress outdoor because people like you say so. No rational reason other that people like you think it's off

Jumping on the current nonsensical bandwagon. Are you alluding to nonsense like if a boy wants to play with dolls/like pink/wear a dress, then he must have been born in the wrong body? That nonsense?
No, the nonsense that it's fine for a boy to wear a dress outdoors.

Big means not !

And I was talking about dress wearing, big thumping another child. About things that don't harm others. Wearing a dress does not harm others.

So, you'd be ok with people reacting badly if your child is behaving in an antisocial way, because he chooses to? Many children would choose to act badly if given the choice. Don't you think it's a parent's job to bring up their children to respect the normal values of society?

What does wearing a long piece of fabric that doesn't attach at the crotch have to do with "acting badly"? Also FWIW, the "normal values of society" for a long time were hardcore racism, sexism, homophobia etc so there are occasionally positive results of ignoring the status quo.

Giving into bullies is wrong .

Changing yourself to try and avoid the gaze of the bullies is wrong. Why should I change because they are bad? Surely the behaviours that need to be challenged and changed are those of the bullies?

How far do you take it? Don't wear a dress son, don't wear a shirt skirt daughter, don't study dance son? Dont study physics daughter? What about don't eat vegetarian? Make sure you do wear make up? Don't apply for that job? Don't buy that unfashionable handbag?

The idea of stopping your child from acting in a way they chose simply because other people might act badly as a result is a pretty crap way to bring up your child
So, you'd be ok with people reacting badly if your child is behaving in an antisocial way, because he chooses to? Many children would choose to act badly if given the choice. Don't you think it's a parent's job to bring up their children to respect the normal values of society?

Teenagers have used clothes to express themselves since the 1940's.

If there is a choice to be had, I don't see any reason not to let a child make it. My four year old picks what she wants from her clothes most mornings when she wakes up. On the other hand, almost all of her clothing is hand me downs, and the same is true of my older kids to some extent.

More than restrictions around "boys' and "girls" clothes, I think a lot of the foolishness over gender ideology comes out of the idea that it's important for kids to express themselves through their clothing choices, to be authentic.

It's not. I like clothes as much as the next person, but it is so not important. Who we are is nothing to do with what we wear - that is an idea that comes out of consumerism and branding to a large degree. It's natural for kids and teens to be interested in that to some degree, but it's also a good thing for them if parents prove to be a little skeptical, don't take it too seriously, and continue to insist on things like snow-pants in the cold, or that the work uniform is necessary even if it is butt ugly.

Kids should be coming out of their childhood and teen years with a strong sense of self, not a sense of identity - branding - built around culturally arbitrary clothing options and product choices.

jumping on the current nonsensical bandwagon

Are you alluding to nonsense like if a boy wants to play with dolls/like pink/wear a dress, then he must have been born in the wrong body?

That nonsense?

Society doesn't cater for boys wearing dresses.

There's the rub.

As Michelle y nicely earlier

The idea of stopping your child from acting in a way they chose simply because other people might act badly as a result is a pretty crap way to bring up your child.

Today's society normally accepts that boys wear boys' clothing and girls wear girls' clothing, which includes trousers, jeans, leggings and jeggings. Society doesn't cater for boys wearing dresses. Adults who are pandering to their sons' wishes to wear a dress outdoors are 1) setting the child up for hostile stares and comments, 2) jumping on the current nonsensical bandwagon and 3) loading their sons with their own perceived politically correct agenda.

Surely being frank with your kids in an age appropriate way Would be the way to go. For preschool children, who cares? Other kids won’t be bothered or probably even notice. Maybe the kid will get misgendered but again at that age no one really cares.

As he gets older/in school teach him about stereotypes. “Some people used to think that men and women shouldn’t have certain jobs - there’s even some who still think that! Isn’t that crazy? In fact some people think what we wear or what we like should be based on whether we’re male or female. Some people even bully others about it!”

If he still wants to wear one, prepare him to shrug and brush it off if it comes up. And let’s be honest if it isn’t the dress the kids who are so inclined will make something else the issue for teasing.

My son is almost five and wears girl pjs and has girly duvet cover. He also has asd.
I wouldn't let him wear dresses outside but on occasion he will wear one inside. He has an older sister which he likes to copy i think.

Less important than love but more important than Twister?

😂

I fucking love it here.