Would you ok your son wearing a dress?

I agree. Weird.

I've always found MN a place that embraces non-conformity, particularly with regards to so-called "gendered" clothing.

So have I. I don't find this thread particularly representative of the normal thrust of conversation.

I'd live there.

What are 02 tubes?

So it's not victim blaming telling a boy not to wear a dress to avoid bullying but it would be victim blaming if the length of a girls skirt was mentioned during a rape trial

Women will get raped irregardless of what they wear.

Peoples mind set with the dress is that a child who woulndt have been picked on, is now bullied because they wore a dress.

So that's why it's seen as different.

I don't necessarily agree with that as I think the kids who get bullied will be bullied no matter what they do.

I've always loved a good prance, me.

If it was my eldest adult child he really would have to take a lawnmower to his legs though

But not if he is wearing shorts or swimming trunks?

I’m not sure about this one. I wouldn’t expect my ds to want to wear a turban or a kilt or any other dress that’s not the norm for his culture so I would expect him not to wear a dress either.

What depressing responses on this thread.

I've always found MN a place that embraces non-conformity, particularly with regards to so-called "gendered" clothing.

I hope the people who say they wouldn't let their son wear a dress because it's "embarrassing" "weird" or "they'll get bullied" recognise that they are the ones helping to create an "unsafe" environment for non-conforming children.

If your son wants to wear a dress and you repress, repress, repress, you risk othering him and fostering shame. He may ball that up and internalise it and one day you could see that repression emerge as something else.

Far more important is teaching your son he can wear a dress, but that doesn't stop him being him.

Certainly neither me or any of the girls in the top set were discouraged or bullied for doing Maths.

That's good to hear, Dido. I am very pleased of course that you were not bullied at school (for that).

Just out of curiosity tho' - was there any bullying at your school and if there was, what sort of things attracted the attention of the bullies?

I wouldn't let my DS play out in the dress Harry was wearing, its probably a £30k dress and would be wrecked in no time, he would put a foot through all that tulle and froth in seconds as would I

“I think when people say "but it's not a dress " they mean " it's the type of dress that they understand is acceptable as menswear"

So it's not victim blaming telling a boy not to wear a dress to avoid bullying but it would be victim blaming if the length of a girls skirt was mentioned during a rape trial ?

I doubt Harry Styles picked his own clothes for that Vogue shoot the same way I doubt anyone in Vogue picks their own clothes. I'm sure he was a part of the concept but not the specific dresses.

I think all the people worried about bully's need to remember that people are usually bullied due to their personality, perceived weakness and/or reaction to ridicule. Not because of style choice or appearance.

Thats why not all fat kids or all ugly kids get bullied.

A cool kid with confidence could wear what they want and not get bullied. Taken the piss out of maybe. But not bullied. A really cool kid could potentially turn it into a trend. Which is what I think Harry is trying and failing to do.

I wouldn't have a problem if my (non-existent) son wore a dress, but it would make me wonder if he would turn out to be gay, as I know these things are biological and acting gender atypical at such a young age is an indicator of sexual orientation.

No it isn’t.

Interesting that action figures are called figures and not dolls isn't it!

Thanks medusa, I think you have something there with the bullying argument

Perhaps you could work your wisdom on why I also feel that people saying things along the lines of it doesn't suit them or doesn't look cool is also off?i think it's because what looks good is cultural also so could be a disguise for sexism?

No

Like how action figures aren’t dolls?!

(We are not in UK, in case that wasn't obvious. No school uniform. In fact I don't think teachers are allowed to comment on appearance.)

I wouldn't have a problem if my (non-existent) son wore a dress, but it would make me wonder if he would turn out to be gay, as I know these things are biological and acting gender atypical at such a young age is an indicator of sexual orientation. I would still love an encourage him to be himself regardless of what he wore though.

I'm a bit more relaxed about my DD (4) when she acts more masculine or likes "boys" toys. I'm going to encourage her to be a bit more masculine in the ways she behaves and the hobbies or careers she chooses, as she grows up seeing as men reap more rewards (societal, financial etc) for being masculine.

My 14 year old son wears makeup to school. Very flamboyant eyes. He's just had his ears pierced with sparkly earrings too. Came home with them done the other day. He does it partly to attention-seek, partly because it's fun to be beautiful, partly to annoy the macho-subculture boys...

he points out 'if I thought i was a girl, I wouldn't be breaking gender norms, I'd be reinforcing them', so I guess that's alright.

I did dissuade him from wearing a skirt earlier in the autumn, though. Persuaded him he didn't have the right top to bring the outfit together. Old white tshirt not right. Not quite sure why this was step too far for me. Possibly because the tshirt WAS wrong. Not Bowie, more bloke who should have moved out of his mother's basement. Maybe I agree with pp who feel that important that the aesthetics are right. Ds usually has great retro outfits (he goes to charity shops with friends) which go well with his whole look and I'm happier with that.

Very odd for me, because I've never had any interest in makeup and little in clothes. Have certainly never felt confident or fabulous like him. Children can be quite surprising, but it's fun to see what they get up to.

All the outrage about "you are going to get your child bullied" seems really short sighted to me. I mean firstly it's teaching kids that being different means they deserve bullying- and therefore that it's ok to bully others who look different. You are raising (or at the very least raising kids that will enable) bullies by teaching them this is a "social norm" that absolutely cannot be transgressed.

Secondly it's an arbitrary social norm that only exists because people like you make it exist, there is no logical reason for it. Why does it matter if boys wear dresses? Saying because it's a social norm is circular logic, give me a real reason.

Here's the thing, DS isn't a dress wearing but, but he does like pink. That made me nervous at first because I know how cruel kids can be (and I know how many parents will instil this daft idea that colours are gendered), but actually his classmates were fine with it.

This idea we have to force the kids to conform to avoid them being the target of bullies, actually I think a more useful skill is teaching them that bullies don't get a damn say. A lot kids unfortunately don't get a choice to conform and avoid the attention of bullies, I didn't, my kids won't, because our family are mostly really short people, so my son is likely to get hassle for this. So I'm teaching my kids that bullies are stupid, and that treating others badly because they don't conform is stupid. And that not conforming doesn't mean bullying is guaranteed.

I. Woulndt mind my son wearing a dress if he could pull it off and look cool. But I don't think Harry looked cool. He looked like he was trying too hard.

People like Bowie, Prince, boy George, even Marilyn Mason pull off gender bending styles and look good with it. Harry did not.

But I think Candive Owens issue was not just with Harry in his dress, but actually with the gradual erosion of manly men and a demonisation of anything masculine. Not all aspect of masculinity are bad and you can be manly without being a sex criminal, bully or aggressor. So we shouldn't make men go against their natural traits or feel bad for being traditional men. But there is room in this world for all sorts of male personalities, we don't need to shun femenine men either.