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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Would you ok your son wearing a dress?

686 replies

KristinaJup · 12/12/2020 18:46

Candace Owens recently tweeted (in response to Harry Styles wearing a dress on a magazine cover) "Bring Back Manly Men".. amongst other things.

Who really cares if a guy wears tutus and glittery dresses? Prince was hot af in his heels and Makeup.

Imo I would have no problem with it at all if my son wanted to put on a skirt but the tweet gained a lot of traction and I saw quite a few memes and lots of fingers pointed at feminism for "ruining men"

If we carry on this way the next thing will be....women should not be wearing trousers! What do you think?

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Fishfingersandwichplease · 13/12/2020 11:06

I want to say l would be ok with it but something inside me makes me feel really uncomfortable when my daughter's male friend comes round and puts her dresses on. They are 9. And it might be controversial but l like my man to be manly - seeing him in a dress would be an absolute turn off.

CatsCantCatchCriminals2 · 13/12/2020 11:06

How are you supposed to learn things like having sweaty feet if you're not allowed to experience that for yourself? Playing, when you are a child, is really learning about the world and yourself.

I am a parent and I did notice that my parenting skills were more (ahem) "relaxed" than some parents.

We are all different is the way I like to view this - nobody is wrong and nobody is right - we do our best, we muddle though. Some things work better than others.

I don't have strong feelings about wellies one way or the other but if my kid wanted to wear them for whatever reason - what's the harm?

FourPlatinumRings · 13/12/2020 11:04

We have have waists and hips and narrow shoulders, breasts and shapely thighs.

Woah. Generalise, much? So those with a lollipop body shape look ridiculous in dresses? Cheers.

likeamillpond · 13/12/2020 11:03

Oh forgot the bum
Dresses and skirts need a female bum. It doesn't hang right at the back otherwise

BaseDrops · 13/12/2020 11:03

What a lot of new names in FWR. Quite revealing of how embedded the gender “rules” are in many.

Every incidence of seeing adults balking at a transgression of gender “rules” adds up in kids heads. Personally I try to avoid that because I don’t want my kids joining in with nonsensical limiters. The fact that girls have had decades of ignore this nonsense and boys have not can’t be ignored as having an impact on the sexes.

likeamillpond · 13/12/2020 11:01

This wont be a popular opinion but here goes
I think most men look ridiculous in dresses.
The reason women suit dresses is because we have female shape and form which lends itself to suiting a dress.
We have have waists and hips and narrow shoulders, breasts and shapely thighs.
Men just look ridiculous.
A dress probably looks quite sweet on a little boy, but why get him used to somethin g that will just look ridiculous in him once he gets older.

Buttybach · 13/12/2020 10:58

This YouTuber makes very valid points

The dress picture was for vogue I can't imagine for a minute that he would wear it shopping. He was the first ever man to be on the cover of American vogue.
Harry Styles has pushed the style envelope in the past and been utterly ridiculed for things like floral suits. I do feel sorry for men that want to dress a little on the bright side. My husband would look great in brighter colours but has always said that his co workers would take the piss.

CatsCantCatchCriminals2 · 13/12/2020 10:57

Sorry for the caps but people seem to be having a trouble grasping that allowing your son to wear a dress is not the same as forcing them into one. Saying "yes, alright" to a little boy wanting to wear a dress is not forcing a political agenda.

Thank you teeny for putting into words exactly what I feel.

EBearhug · 13/12/2020 10:57

What's wrong with wearing wellies when it's hot? Yes, your feet get hot, but if you're washing a dog or walking across a river or through cow dung, it makes sense. We often wore wellies (with shorts) in hot weather as children, as did our farmer father.

Don't really care about boys and men wearing dresses, either. It's just social convention. There are plenty parts of the world where it's normal for men to wear skirt or dress-like clothes and I doubt they're any less manly (whatever that really means.) I would assume those who are most bothered about it are those who care more for the opinions of others - and that does matter a lot to some people.

CatsCantCatchCriminals2 · 13/12/2020 10:55

Are you also one of those parents who leave the house with an abundance of toys because you cant say 'no' to your child?

What do you mean - "also"?

FourPlatinumRings · 13/12/2020 10:55

It's ok to parent! And while a dress on a boy doesn't affect them on a practical level, I'd argue that it does affect them on an emotional level when they are bullied or teased at school etc.

Ultimately, if you've got a little boy who want to wear dresses, you can tell him one of two things:

A. You are not a boy (because you want to wear dresses and boys don't do that).
B. Some boys like to wear dresses and that's OK.

Which of the two do you think will damage him most emotionally?

BexR · 13/12/2020 10:52

Well said @TeenyTinyDustinHoffman

TeenyTinyDustinHoffman · 13/12/2020 10:49

Oh, dear fucking God!
NO ONE ON HERE IS FORCING THEIR SONS INTO DRESSES.
NO ONE ON HERE IS INSISTING THAT THEIR SONS BE NON CONFORMING.
THEY ARE NOT FORCING AN AGENDA.

Sorry for the caps but people seem to be having a trouble grasping that allowing your son to wear a dress is not the same as forcing them into one. Saying "yes, alright" to a little boy wanting to wear a dress is not forcing a political agenda.

I think it's responsible, if your son were to ask, to tell him how other people might react, tell him he might get teased at school. I wouldn't tell him that it was "unnatural" because he'd probably ask why and, in absence of a discovery of a genetic mutation that encourages boys to wear dresses, there isn't really an answer to that.
And, if he still wanted to wear a dress, I'd say alright

rockinaftermidnite · 13/12/2020 10:44

No, I would not.

Biscuitsanddoombar · 13/12/2020 10:40

@Viviennemary

Just say no. Boys don't wear dresses. Same as we don't go out naked.
Hogwash! Those situations are in no way comparable
FunkBus · 13/12/2020 10:39

Mine is very young, it's easy to say now I wouldn't care but I got teased a lot at school for being weird and it really messed me up. I'd hate him to feel the same. Equally I'd hate him to have to pretend to be someone he's not.

The thing with Harry Styles is, he looks shit in a dress. Prince looked great, everything he wore suited him. Harry Styles just looks like a bloke in a dress. No female model would get away with looking that shit in a fashion magazine.

insiwinsi · 13/12/2020 10:38

I wouldn't let him know it but yes I probably would feel uncomfortable at least until I got used to it. I've been brainwashed by society, by what I grew up around. I would worry that other people would judge him and it would make me feel concerned in that respect. I hope I would get used to it though.

ncbby · 13/12/2020 10:38

It's ok to parent! And while a dress on a boy doesn't affect them on a practical level, I'd argue that it does affect them on an emotional level when they are bullied or teased at school etc.

Right, except ginger children get bullied, gay kids get bullied and nerdy kids get bullied as a few examples but nobody is saying "John, you need to become a heterosexual brunette who can't pass his GCSEs or we're scared you'll be bullied". I've also recognised a few posters saying this kind of stuff, and they're also the ones who are talking about "kids these days having no resilence" - how do you expect them to develop resilience if you enforce that they conform?

(as a footnote I give those examples because I had a moderately recent school life and these were the children I remember getting bullied, though I too fit into some of those categories)

dontforgetbilly · 13/12/2020 10:36

My little girl used to love party dresses, her little brother wore them too because the wanted to be like her. They both learnt that they are ridiculous clothes to wear if you want to climb trees, ride motorbikes etc, my little boy did come to this realisation much quicker than his sister.
Clothes are clothes. As long as I don't get moaned at that they are too cold/warm/uncomfortable I couldn't care less what either of my kids wear

FourPlatinumRings · 13/12/2020 10:35

@Viviennemary

Just say no. Boys don't wear dresses. Same as we don't go out naked.
This is how you wind up convincing boys who do want to wear dresses that they are, in fact, girls.
Crystalclair · 13/12/2020 10:32

Cats- we both know wellies on a hot day make your feet sweat.

Are you also one of those parents who leave the house with an abundance of toys because you cant say 'no' to your child? Or allow them to leave the house on a cold day without appropriate layers, because afterall, it's their choice?

It's ok to parent! And while a dress on a boy doesn't affect them on a practical level, I'd argue that it does affect them on an emotional level when they are bullied or teased at school etc.

You can't control other people's children if they bully. But you can minimize the effect by making sensible choices for them. You know- as the PARENT.

berrygirlie · 13/12/2020 10:31

Just say no. Boys don't wear dresses. Same as we don't go out naked.

How on God's green Earth are these situations even close to being comparable?

Viviennemary · 13/12/2020 10:29

Just say no. Boys don't wear dresses. Same as we don't go out naked.

CatsCantCatchCriminals2 · 13/12/2020 10:24

@Crystalclair

Cats- if I really need to explain about wellies on a hot day, then there is no hope...

Go on give it your best shot.

Could you also say why a child apparently can't be trusted to decide for him or herself that an item of clothing or footwear is unsuitable for whatever reason.

DontStopThinkingAboutTomorrow · 13/12/2020 10:22

@Rainedere

*Absolute load of bollox. Gender is a social construct, and all things aimed at a particular gender are made by man, not nature. Biology has fuck all to do with a boy playing with a truck or a girl a doll. Did you know that until fairly recently it was normal to have male toddlers in dresses with longer hair?en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breeching_(boys)considered completely normal and yet would be odd if it happened today. Did you also know that it's also a fairly modern concept to have girls = pink and boys = blue, and that it used to be the other way around?*

I used to agree with social constructionism up until I actually looked at studies where macaque monkeys had gendered toy preference and that even in hunter-gatherer societies these gender behaviours kind of prove that some behaviours are innate to someone's sex such as aggression, interests and sexual behaviour. Its universal in most societies including those who have had no influence from other more egalitarian societies.

Surely aggression etc is linked to testosterone? I'm not arguing by the way, just genuinely interested! I'm off to google the studies about monkeys and toy preferences.