Would you ok your son wearing a dress?

Also to the posters saying 'my son wears spibk sparkly trainers and rainbow dresses out and about and all we've received is positivity' I'm sorry to be harsh and offensive but so you really think that's what those people are saying when they're sat at home at the dinner table? British culture is very 'polite' and as such human beings are often hypocritical. They might say 'oh how original! Oh how lovely you're letting ethan EXPRESS himself!' but at home it's probably more like 'oh god John. Ethans mum is letting him wear girls clothes! I mean honestly you ought to have seen him in thar pink dress. I mean I know we're meant to be all for it nowadays but I'd NEVER let little Johnny wear stuff like that!' in afraid what you're hearing to your face (most of us know to be "pc") and what people actually think and are saying is probably very different. I feel terribly sorry for these little boys.

Animal rights are actually far more important to me than feminism. Women have voices- animals don't.

I agree with what you say. I wouldn't have stopped my son wearing a dress when I had any control over him and should he start now I wouldn't comment disparagingly. Inside however I'd probably be thinking -"it's not a great look".

I don't think many men look particularly good in dresses. (I think there is a huge application on this thread of the FWR rose- tinted glasses about the masses of fabulous dress- wearing men in the 70s,80s and 90s ) Tbh apart from Kurt Cobain I can't think of any others. Cobain was such a pretty man and he looks completely at ease in his (apart from that awful yellow one in the Head Bangers' Ball interview)

I don't think it's particularly to do with not having busts and hips- plenty of dresses don't need that body shape- these for example. None of the models have noticable busts and hips.

www.and-daughter.com/collections/dresses

I do like a man in a well cut suit. It's always struck me that almost every man scrubs up well in black tie.

Would you tell a Muslim they should feel free to eat pork if they wanted to because its a ridiculous notion that they shouldn't?

What an odd comment. If I knew a Muslim person wanted to eat pork I would probably say something that my understanding of the Islamic and Jewish prohibition on eating pork was related to health and safety reasons which no longer apply so if they want to eat pork why not (but could they make sure it's from free range, organic herds).

I do , I have to say, struggle with the idea of certain animals being treated as unclean. If a an all powerful, loving god made everything it's rather spiteful and vindictive to create sentient, intelligent animals like pigs and dogs to be despised- so yes I may well query that attitude.

But as soon as you impose societal norms you could be preventing your child growing up as themselves. You restrict their freedoms. You are accepting and reinforcing pointless limitations. Because they are pointless. Here we are as a society when many are wanting their freedoms not to wear a face mask that protects others, yet we seem to be willing to restrict aspects of dress that harms no one. Bonkers

I have no problem with him wearing whatever makes him happy.

Excellent post edge. Sums this up nicely.

Reading some of the posts on this thread, it's a wonder that some women aren't still wearing corsets.

😂

It's so difficult. I want to say that I would have no problem with it at all. Intellectually, I know that there is no reason why skirts and dresses are reserved for females. It's just a cultural norm.

However, in reality, I think of the reaction that my (hypothetical) son would get from other people, including family members, and that would make me pause. I think my approach would depend on the age of the child and their level of understanding.

I'd also be worried about creating a 'forbidden fruit' situation if I made too big a deal about it.

Finally, when I see a clearly male child or adolescent dressed in a skirt and other "girls'" clothes, I assume that the child identifies as trans. I suppose if more boys wore skirts, then that assumption would drop away.

I think women started wearing trousers during the First World War when they had to take physical jobs while the men were away fighting. Dresses were impractical. The same thing happened during the Second World War, which probably entrenched the idea that women 'could' wear trousers. Without such a big reason for the change in fashion, I suspect it would have taken much longer before women started wearing trousers.

Unless there is a real reason for men to start wearing skirts en masse, including older and more conservative men, I feel that the shift to men wearing skirts will be slow. It is difficult to override cultural norms.

A person, whether shapely or not, female or male can wear trousers and those trousers will likely hang right on and not look ridiculous.
A dress on the other hand is less forgiving.

This is a bizarre statement. There are many types of dresses. Absolutely no reason why men can't wear dresses.

sorry, "trousers as opposed to knickerbockers or breeches".

Reading some of the posts on this thread, it's a wonder that some women aren't still wearing corsets.

Fashion changes. 30-40 years ago Paula Wilcox's tattoo was shocking, now it is mainstream. Up until about 100 years ago it was normal for young boys to wear dresses. Make-up for men has come in and out of fashion. In the grand scale of things, trousers as opposed to are a relatively recent innovation for anyone.

I agree that it's impractical to wear clothes that are designed around an anatomy you don't have, but fashion has never been particularly practical.

I wouldn't for a moment take this thread to be typical or representative of FWR bumbling. Indeed it stands out somewhat. Lots of first time posters here. Welcome to anyone interested in supporting the rights of women and girls.

Funny how in different times and in different cultures people didn't think men looked ridiculous in a dress. Almost as if it's nothing fundamental and just a learnt idea.

It wasn't connected to being good at maths particularly or even being clever, but I think the combination of being pretty and clever upset them.

I am very sorry to hear you were bullied at school. That happened to me too. They could see you were pretty. How did they know you were clever? Were you good at maths or science?

There is a lot of handwringing dido

But I’m afraid i took your post literally when you said that some FWR regulars think that only by going to a single sex school will girls take up science

the dresses he wore are designed for having boobs and hips in them and they just look rubbish on his body.

Exactly the point I was trying to make.
Even with a load of slap on his face and being fairly nice looking, HS looked like a Man Wearing A Dress with a load of slap on his face.

Saini goes through all the studies (such as that monkey toy one - in which the female monkeys actually showed no preference) and debunks the myths around them.

My DF came home from the Korean War. His DM met him at the train station, when he saw she was wearing trousers he pretended he hadn’t seen her and walked the other way. Sounds crazy now.

Can they really not see (the Candice Owens of this world) that they're perpetuating toxic masculinity?