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Original poster

Atlantic has an article about "anti-trans feminism" and of course Mumsnet is mentioned

138 replies

WeeBisom · 08/12/2020 16:29

Link here:www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2020/12/reddit-ovarit-the-donald/617320/

The journalist compares feminist spaces like Lipstick Alley, Ovarit, and Mumsnet to right wing communities like incels and the Donald. The article is disappointing because they get so many basic things wrong. In the very first paragraph they equate 'radical' feminism with extremism, and talk about a woman becoming 'further radicalised'. They say that gender critical feminists believe 'gender is fixed' when that's not what gender critical feminists believe at all. And the article tells the lie that radical feminists dox, harass and bully trans women when we do nothing of the sort. It's just frustrating to have so many lies and misconceptions spread about online feminist communities.

OP posts:
PlantMam · 08/12/2020 20:14

@Maduixa

UK people, can you access this article? I’m elsewhere in the EU - I follow the link and can see it for moments - the misogynistic title, the byline by “Kaitlyn Tiffany”’, and half a sentence which is a lie - and then I get forwarded to an error message:: we’re working on it! We're having trouble displaying the page you're looking for. We apologize, and expect to resolve the problem soon.

If anyone’s inspired to C&P the text here, or save to archive.is and post a ljnk, I’d appreciate it. Thanks!

archive.md/9wZJ9
PlantMam · 08/12/2020 20:08

Solidarity with our sisters over on LSA.

Here’s a comment from over there that we should all take on board

‘There are two places I will not go with these TRAs and that’s back and forth. They can argue with themselves.’

nauticant · 08/12/2020 20:05

Mollyollydolly, it's this: ovarit.com/

Original poster
WeeBisom · 08/12/2020 20:01

This is what annoys me about this article - the tone of the journalist implies that ovarit and mumsnet are like those dark and extreme parts of the internet where young men are radicalised into terrorists as opposed to feminist websites where women just want a space of their own. They discuss women’s growing awareness of the dangers of certain elements of trans ideology like women are being “radicalised” into extremist positions. I think at one point the article mentions that we break away from reality. But do we? We think that humans can’t change sex, but that doesn’t mean trans people aren’t worthy of respect. We think that women’s sport should be for females only. We think that puberty blockers for children are pernicious. Is this really a break away from reality? Every time I read an article that tries to frame gender critical feminism as some kind of cult I just get so mad, because a lot of it is made up!

OP posts:
PrawnofthePatriarchy · 08/12/2020 19:55

As they say on Lipstick Alley. There is nothing actually mainstream about the genderist belief that human sex is imaginary.

Mollyollydolly · 08/12/2020 19:49

What's Overit? I'd never heard of it till I read this article. Think I might have to seek it out.

BraveBananaBadge · 08/12/2020 19:47

Ah, Vox. Is it still the home of the dreadful Emily VanDerWerff?

Those Facebook comments are encouraging (and articulate) but there’s one guy who’s taken it upon himself to abuse every single woman criticising the piece. And another furiously blaming t*fs for a transphobic attack before having to clarify it was men who did it, without seeing the disconnect.

I try not to overthink idiots on social media - don’t know them, possibly bots, etc - but it can be so infuriating.

Mollyollydolly · 08/12/2020 19:46

The nasty British women have found it on twitter. She's getting a robust response.
twitter.com/kait_tiffany/status/1336307072082866178

FedUpWithBriiiiick · 08/12/2020 19:45

Had a quick glimpse at the Lipstick thread. Those ladies are not fucking around! GrinSolidarity sisters!

merrymouse · 08/12/2020 19:44

Quote from the article:

"She became convinced that trans women are men"

merrymouse · 08/12/2020 19:37

I’ve never read the Atlantic. Where is it published?

It's a news magazine published in the US, and has a lot of good articles.

Helen Lewis is also a staff writer and she definitely won't be agreeing with this article, because apart from anything else she knows here feminist history.

I think its significant that the writer of the article usually covers technology.

TheGreatSloth · 08/12/2020 19:32

What, so believing that women are oppressed because of their biology means I have been radicalised? I thought it just meant I'd started reading the newspapers.

MondayYogurt · 08/12/2020 19:31

@PurpleHoodie

Has she even been to the site?

Doesn't seem so. The muppet.

I've had a peek.

The Lipstick Ladies have sounded the KLAXON.

They've started a thread readying themselves for a TRA onslaught. They are (ahem) not meek Grin

Solidarity ✊
Maduixa · 08/12/2020 19:24

UK people, can you access this article? I’m elsewhere in the EU - I follow the link and can see it for moments - the misogynistic title, the byline by “Kaitlyn Tiffany”’, and half a sentence which is a lie - and then I get forwarded to an error message:: we’re working on it! We're having trouble displaying the page you're looking for. We apologize, and expect to resolve the problem soon.

If anyone’s inspired to C&P the text here, or save to archive.is and post a ljnk, I’d appreciate it. Thanks!

YouNoob · 08/12/2020 19:23

I’ve never read the Atlantic. Where is it published?

Right wing rad fem extremists prone to violence. That describes mumsnet FWR so well.

BitterAndOnlySlightlyTwisted · 08/12/2020 19:13

Every accusation is an admission.

If that writer thinks I’m an extremist they ain’t seen shit yet

PurpleHoodie · 08/12/2020 19:13

Has she even been to the site?

Doesn't seem so. The muppet.

I've had a peek.

The Lipstick Ladies have sounded the KLAXON.

They've started a thread readying themselves for a TRA onslaught. They are (ahem) not meek Grin

stumbledin · 08/12/2020 19:11

okay have found the facebook thread - the writer is fromVox www.facebook.com/TheAtlantic/posts/10159368694328487

HecatesCatsInXmasHats · 08/12/2020 19:11

@SebastianTheCrab

"Eventually, her beliefs radicalized further: She became convinced that gender is fixed"

This reads like a parody.

The whole thing does. It's written as if she's describing the radicalisation of mass murderers, rather than groups of women who believe that there are two sexes. Imagine that even being controversial. Plus her insistence on referring to just how many thousands of women there are on these awful sites seems to underline that it's a commonly held view.
stumbledin · 08/12/2020 19:09

I cant be bothered to find the link, but on the Atlantic facebook page where they have posted a link to the article, most comments are that the article is just trash and not up to jounalistic standards they would expect. And that the writer is from some other paper known for this sort of trash.

Just in case anyone wants to read the comments there.

She doesn't even mention spinster.xyz.

So yet again the question is not that there will be someone to write this sort of biased nonsense, but why apparently serious papers / magazines publish them.

PlantMam · 08/12/2020 19:00

Lipstick Alley self describes as,
‘The Internet's largest African American Forum. News, Sports, Celebrity Gossip, Fashion and Hair Care from an African American perspective.’

The Atlantic author of the above article calls it a ‘Black women’s beauty forum‘.

Seems rudely reductive.

PrawnofthePatriarchy · 08/12/2020 18:58

Has she even been to the site?

For all of five minutes I'd guess.

merrymouse · 08/12/2020 18:58

They say that gender critical feminists believe 'gender is fixed'

You'd think the clue would be in the name.

PrawnofthePatriarchy · 08/12/2020 18:57

It's preposterous. Complete and utter bollocks without a fact check to its name. I had a hard time with the link in the OP. In case anyone else is struggling, here's another: www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2020/12/reddit-ovarit-the-donald/617320/ - though I'm not sure it's worth the effort.

DreadPirateLuna · 08/12/2020 18:55

She also calls Lipstick Alley a "black women's beauty forum" 😕. Has she even been to the site?