BBC at it again

Here you go: www.sexologytoday.org/2016/01/do-trans-kids-stay-trans-when-they-grow_99.html

I think it's very odd that you are now a happy adult who got to transition, but you don't think, 'great all kids can get to be a happy adult like me, and make their choices like I did.'
The ones who still want to transition as adults and the ones who don't.

What's the rush?

When it boils down to it, the argument is really: these children will have more successful cosmetic surgery as adults if we give them puberty blockers now.

Except that's not actually the case. As we have seen with some well publicised cases, genital surgery to make a neo vagina is actually more difficult in boys who haven't been through a full male puberty.

And as for girls, the puberty blockers are only given after the commencement of puberty, so girls will have some breast development and will still need a mastectomy to acquire a 'male' chest.

The only possible 'benefit' is for boys who will not end up with the irreversible effects of testosterone (such as facial hair and deep voice), which seems to be the argument for giving them to boys. But what possible reason could there be to give them to girls?

You distinguish between a gay child and a trans child by the gay child having a gender identity congruent with the sex they were assigned at birth and the trans child not having a gender identity congruent with the sex they were assigned at birth.

They can see a migraine in the brain

They can't see any thing in a child's brain that identifies them as trans

For adults who have transitioned, they can only see evidence of trauma. Trans brains after transition have some similar features. But these seem to be more to do with surgery, medication or even bad things happening early in life , than the actual transness of a person

Then why am I still trans?

I don't mean to sound unsympathetic Positrans but it's not all about you.

From what you say you had a shit time going through male puberty. That must have been extremely difficult for you. But your experience cannot and must not speak for all others who suffer dysphoric feelings and find puberty traumatic.

You do realise that this is what most of us feel - even if some of us don't feel it quite as acutely as you.

I would have thought that with your insight you would want to help ensure that kids who feel this way are given as much psychological support as possible while they are going through puberty - then, if they still feel the same way about presenting as the sex they were born, other options can be carefully explored and considered.

I don't expect you to agree with me of course, though wouldn't it be good if you could give this some thought.

Posit history shows us there are transexual adults, only in the last decade have we invented the trans child.....can you explain exactly how a Dr diagnoses a child as trans? I really don’t understand how preventing a natural process such as puberty is ever the right thing to do...how does one distinguish between a gay child and a trans child?

Psychological treatment doesn't mean turning you into someone else, it is (or should be) to help you come to terms with the reality of who you are, that includes your sexed body and how you feel about it.

If you take the average little boy and force him to go to school with a girl's name and the girls' uniform, with everyone using female pronouns, I bet you will find him extremely distressed.

Of course, some people would shrug it off - nothing wrong with that, but I suspect most would not be able to tolerate it all day every day in every interaction including with their one families.

You can see migraine in a brain scan, but doctors generally don't require one - they will prescribe migraine medication on the basis of the subjective experience you describe to them.

Also, gender identity is about who you are, so most trans people wouldn't want a psychological solution because they would feel that it's attempting to turn them into someone else.

So are you saying it's not a medical condition at all, but a question of identity? Why would this need medical treatment at all? Why not just live your life in the body you have?

And isn't pharmaceutical and surgical 'transition' a way of turning a person into 'someone else'?

Then why am I still trans?

Because you are not every body.

For clarity: puberty resolves dysphoria in around 80% of cases without intervention.
You are the minority.

But you got to choose to transition as an adult and the majority got to live without medical intervention.
Win win?

You are still trans possibly because you think it matters. Because people around you say it's a thing. Because you see it as an option which means your brain hasn't had to work hard to figure out another solution. It's the easy path cognitively. It's an externalisation.

To be truthful, I could easily describe myself as trans. I meet most criteria listed by the NHS for trans adults. I choose not to. I choose to not medicate my body. I chose no surgery. I chose instead to challenge the stereotypes and to live true to me.

This may not be the path for every trans child, but I know I am not the only person to have ended up here. Which shows a none medical pathway is possible , and if history is any indication, it will help most children.

Not only do the overwhelming majority of children not go on to transition, but it seems an overwhelming sample of older females are bloody glad they were not given the opportunity

Are there any studies on this?
Looking at numbers of women self reporting they were gender non conforming, /dysphoric teenagers who would have taken the drugs if offered but who are now living happily as women with their natural bodies?

And looking at suicide rates over the decades before puberty suppression was offered, of women who reported being gender non conforming/ dysphoric?
Surely there would be significant numbers if the, 'drugs or suicide' narrative had any validity?

So you would be happier to have had a significant loss of sexual function and no fertility to be able to better replicate the looks cosmetically of a female?

But posi

No one else required their identity to be validated and so externally obviously all the time. Its just who we are and requires no one else to be involved.

I would argue that the need to be validated like that is psychological. Because most of us would have zero reaction to being thought of as something else. To be seen buying something or using a facility etc is not triggering. Given biopsies and brain scans and blood tests etc are not a part of the dx process then its not a physical thing you can measure or test for so what is it if its not a psychological issue.

Basically, the psychological effect of a testosterone puberty on a trans girls is exactly the same as if you took a girl who isn't trans and forcibly injected her with testosterone.

This is why it's dangerous to put children on a path to puberty blockers followed (almost inevitably) by cross-sex hormones, since many girls would otherwise have grown up to be content with their bodies, and will instead have to live with the irreversible effects of testosterone on their female bodies.

And you can't compare a natural puberty in a boy with an artificially induced 'male puberty' in a girl.

See I disagree

If it's only gender that is the issue, well gender is a load of old rubbish forced on us by narrow minded individuals. Which is why so many women reject it outright.

If it's sex as well as gender, which was certainly the case with me. They are tightly coupled because gender is forced on you by your sex.

Actually you can grow into an understanding of what it means to be human, an acceptance of your body. You may never like it. You may always think it would have been better to be born a man but you also realise that you are who you are. Every last bit of you. And anyone trying to change it is trying to convert you to something more palatable to their image of humanity.

Show me any human 100% happy with every aspect of their body and I'll show you a liar.

And yes, mental health support is vital. Particularly in my case from humans who totally rejected gender. Who believed totally that who you intellectually and emotionally are has nothing at all to do with your biological sex .

@sultanasofa I'm all in favour of good evidence. I believe there is actually a huge. long-term study of trans kids going on at the moment.

It is important to speak to trans adults too though because most trans adults were trans children. I can tell you that the effects of a testosterone puberty on my life for example were so devastating they nearly killed me. That's anecdotal of course, but you hear the same over and over again from people who lived through it and the vast majority of trans adults regret that they couldn't transition young with puberty blockers.

I look forward to clearer evidence.

There are no pychological solutions to gender dysphoria. There are some that help you cope, but none that cure it.

Actually natural puberty is a great cure for gender dysphoria.

I disagree with the judgement. If a trans girls is to young to understand what an estrogen puberty will do to her, then she's too young to understand what a testosterone puberty will do to her.

You do realise you've just made a good argument for leaving these children to grow up until they understand the treatment fully, with an adult level of understanding, don't you?

It would be interesting to know how the mental health of children with gender dysphoria varies having been denied puberty blockers, depending on whether they are growing up in an affirmative environment or a supportive, but honest (impossible to actually change sex but you can look how you want, do what you want, love who you want, though we know that it is very difficult in reality given the gendered nature of society) environment.

Would also be interested in a study that compares the use of puberty blockers with the use of intensive psychological support and therapy for children suffering with gender dysphoria (and perhaps even medication that supports good mental health - don't know if this is done with children). Though of course such

a study would be unethical given that children cannot consent to the puberty blockers.

I would argue that not warning them of what will happen if they miss the opportunity to transition with blockers is irresponsible given that it has been so devastating to so many trans adults. What they need is to have all the information so they can make informed choices.

Children cannot make informed choices about future fertility and sexual function of which they have no experience and no consideration of vs 'here's a magic solution to your dysmorphia right now'.
Clearly they therefore need protection from uninformed decisions by adults.

It's not a choice between an estrogen puberty and a testosterone puberty as you try to neatly obfuscate it.

It's a choice between a natural puberty which will allow for full fertility and sexual function if the dysmorphia resolves, but which will require a decision for synthetic hormones an surgery as an adult if it doesn't. which they as an adult can then decide.

Or, no puberty with a simulated late puberty with artificial hormones, lifelong medical treatment, extensive surgery, infertility and lack of full sexual function, even if happy with the decision, and no way back as an adult even if you're not.

When it boils down to it, the argument is really: these children will have more successful cosmetic surgery as adults if we give them puberty blockers now.