BBC at it again

Also, gender identity is about who you are, so most trans people wouldn't want a psychological solution because they would feel that it's attempting to turn them into someone else. That's conversion therapy.

Conversion therapy is sterilising and mutilating young autistic, gay and abused children for an ideology.

www.newsweek.com/transgender-kids-living-identity-develop-cis-children-1471729

"Within both transgender and cisgender children, we find a wide range in the strength of their identity and preferences. For example, we had some 'tomboy' transgender girls in the study, just as we had 'tomboy' cisgender girls."

And how does identity even conflict with your body. Because I'm lots of things. But I dont need to he seen to be anything

But what is gender identity without stereotypes

Suicidal feelings does not mean you need to have anything changed about you , it can just mean you need mental health support.
I am not negating the depth of feeling.
I am disagreeing with the treatment and I am questioning the role that organisations from mermaids to Twitter have in promoting suicide ideation in children
And I am thinking that this is an unusually healthy discussion around the issues

whatweknow.inequality.cornell.edu/topics/lgbt-equality/%20what-does-the-scholarly-research-say-about-the-well-being-of-transgender-people%20/

2. Among the positive outcomes of gender transition and related medical treatments for transgender individuals are improved quality of life, greater relationship satisfaction, higher self-esteem and confidence, and reductions in anxiety, depression, suicidality, and substance use.

But they cant even define what trans is

Trans and suicide do go together. This is a well established fact. You can look at surveys of trans people from across the world covering thousands of individuals and suicidal feelings are always a major component.

Mermaids are a lifeline for desperate children - I fully support them and donate money regularly.

Would you agree that children with gender dysphoria are experiencing something extremely distressing? And would you agree that an extremely distressed child is more likely to attempt suicide than one who isn't extremely distressed?

You have seen the papers written by clinicians that show that the suicide statistics are similar regardless of whether people transition or not.

Particularly if the mental health aspect has been neglected. Building fear in children by telling them not receiving puberty blockers is going to ruin their lives is so irresponsible.

Oh absolutely. Like I said before.

Where we disagree is the best way to help those young people.

I believe that the vast majority can be supported to throw off the shackles of gender, to accept their body, and to become truely happy without resorting to medication or surgery. I believe that the focus on trans people will actually steer children towards more damaging life choices because when you are living through the worst of it, it makes perfect sense and gives you a way forward.

But I suspect the only people to benefit are pharmaceutical companies. You believe otherwise. Both of us are drawing strongly on our own direct experiences. I feel some sadness for you, I don't think you have been treated well.

Would you agree that children with gender dysphoria are experiencing something extremely distressing? And would you agree that an extremely distressed child is more likely to attempt suicide than one who isn't extremely distressed?

A child who is constantly being told that they must be distressed and that they must be feeling suicidal is probably more likely to attempt suicide than one who isn't being told such things. A child who is told that JK Rowling hates her and wants her dead, or that she will probably want to kill herself if she can't get puberty blockers, is more likely to attempt suicide. Children experiencing gender dysphoria are no more likely to attempt suicide than the rest of the child population, according to the GIDS figures. It's not a risk inherent in trans identity, and many people have made the point that the bigger risk comes from organisations like Mermaids pushing the idea that trans and suicide go together.

I know what puberty does to trans kids and it's vastly more devastating than any purported effects caused by a few years on blockers.

To be fair, you know what puberty does to some children who identify as trans. And nobody can say with any degree of certainty what exactly are the effects of a few years on blockers for teens. So you are being disingenuous when you try to compare the harms of each.

Have you seen what the nhs criteria is?

You need 6 out of 8 points . All the points revolve around stereotypes and the wrong body.

Both things that organisations claim being trans isnt about akd gender dysphoria is also not something trquored to ve considered trans
.do you agree that before we medicate children for being trans that we should have a clear definition of what trans is.

It's true that transition surgeries will probably be more cosmetically successful if trans adults start their transition as children. But the problem with that is that all the evidence tells us:

1. children cannot consent to this treatment
2. children who are left alone are likely to desist after puberty
3. children who don't go through puberty are emotionally, cognitively and physically disabled for life

Yes, there will doubtless be a few individuals who won't desist and who will seek out surgery as adults. They may well feel sad that they didn't get to start their transition as a child. (However, they may also feel grateful that they have been able to develop sexually and can potentially have a sex life and relationship with someone - or even, in the case of males, they may feel glad they have enough 'material' to surgically work with - when puberty is suppressed, the sexual organs don't develop to maturity.) It is obviously a shame for those individuals who would have wished to transition younger. However, as a society, we have to be clear that this major, dangerous, and life-limiting treatment should only be available to adults (and only to those adults who are sane and capable of fully consenting). The risks of putting children on this treatment path are far too great to be justified.

I tried everything I could to not be trans. When I finally transitioned, everything got better. You'll struggle to convince me I should have just waited longer, or talked to a different psychiatrist.

I am sorry but the stats don't stand up on suicide.
Firstly, look at how few girls and women have actually committed suicide over the years because of this, and look how many girls are now trans identifying

the suicide narrative is being pushed, ( I know, online advice for trans teens is to talk about your suicidal intentions ) and that, rather than transgenderism, will drive suicide rates.

Thanks for your thoughts. I hear your point of view and understand that it comes directly from your own experiences.

However, knowing quite a lot about this subject myself, we will have to disagree.

So, I have no qualms about trans kids taking puberty blockers for a few years to give time to consider, and I welcome making all the psychological counselling they need and more available for them in the meantime, but I know what puberty does to trans kids and it's vastly more devastating than any purported effects caused by a few years on blockers

But nearly all the kids who go on blockers go onto cross sex hormones. Its not a thinking space its the first step to full transition.

So they never get the chance to develope mentally enough to properly even think about it. They have no idea if they will cope with puberty or not only the idea that they won't

I'm certainly in favour of extensive psychological support for trans kids - none of this waiting for years to see a specialist, and I'm happy for them to have multiple counselling sessions - most need it because gender dysphoria is extremely difficult to cope with.

However, going through the puberty of their assigned sex will in many cases, cause huge problems that will affect them for life. I have known several people totally unable to live with the consequences and who subsequently took their own lives. A close friend survived but was in a coma for 2 weeks.

So, I have no qualms about trans kids taking puberty blockers for a few years to give time to consider, and I welcome making all the psychological counselling they need and more available for them in the meantime, but I know what puberty does to trans kids and it's vastly more devastating than any purported effects caused by a few years on blockers.

Hopefully, as the biology of being trans is further studied, we will reach a point where diagnosis can be certain, blockers can be avoided and trans kids can go straight to hormones at the onset of puberty.

But you can only see if the gender identity matches if you have an image of the correct gender identity

You can therefore only tell if a child is gay or trans if you make assumptions about what gender identity means and is. If you threw gender identity out the windows, refused to make any assumptions about a person based on their sex, then you could not have any trans children or adults.

The only possible 'benefit' is for boys who will not end up with the irreversible effects of testosterone (such as facial hair and deep voice), which seems to be the argument for giving them to boys. But what possible reason could there be to give them to girls?

So the argument is really: give them to all kids so some boys don't have to have a deep voice, an adam's apple and electrolysis when they want to present as adult women?

You have to come to terms with someone else's idea that there is something wrong with you, that your body somehow is not what it should be? That some treatment could help fix you?

That's pretty nasty if you ask me. But I guess thinking about this, if this has happened to you, it must be very hard to see another path as valid as it would mean that everything you have been through could have been different, easier.