Observer today re Keira Bell

The quote from the parent in support of blockers reflects the advice given to parents by Mermaids etc., they are coached to follow their child's lead, that "these children know who they are". However the child is being coached by Tumblr and reddit etc on the script they need to get what they want.

The affirmation approach ends up being dictated by a bunch of teenagers on social media, being reinforced by lobby groups, and not being challenged because of fear of being called a bigot.

@OldCrone
Excellent post!

I’m also hoping that others will join Kiera Bell. Post gender confirmation surgery regret (and suicide) is much higher than people are willing to recognise and studies into the prevalence of post surgery regret have been vigorously suppressed/defunded.

I know that if I’d been born thirty years later, I’d have been told I was a trans boy. From a very young age I insisted on a male nickname, my favourite fantasy play was to be a girl disguised as a boy running off to be a pirate or a samurai, refused to wear skirts/dresses, refused long hair/makeup/perfume, hated girls games, always played with a group of boys, my academic interests were boy interests, my hobbies were boy hobbies and when I reached puberty I developed sexual attraction towards girls years before it developed towards boys (I am bisexual).

The reality is though that I was (and still am) simply gender nonconforming. I don’t recognise gender stereotypes as anything that applies to me and I’ve been too stubborn and wilful to conform.

if it's natural, like being gay is natural, it needs no treatment.

Exactly. Conflating with gay rights is like then Saying someone who is gay needs treatment.

All this has imploded since the T was added.

The real pressure now is for good help and support and proper safeguarding.
I think the desperation is a theme now apparent in parents quoted across various news reports

This is my concern too. That the mental health care aspect is not there to support this obviously unexpected development.

As a parent watching with unease the girls in the group my teen is friends with, I feel the misinformation being spread is out of control. I feel for any parent who has to tread so carefully around the issues and has a teen who refuses to accept any deviation from guidance such as from mermaids or stonewall.

However, parents adding to this confusion by giving statements in support of medicalising children and teens when the truth is that it IS experimental and that affirming only has no evidence of the kind of success being attributed to it, is irresponsible.

One mother, who said she was now considering going abroad to obtain help, said her child did not “decide” on their transgender identity.

“It is natural,” she said. “It might be statistically uncommon, but then so too is ginger hair.”

She added: “This echoes a discussion which used to be found around homosexuality, with questions like, when did you decide to be gay? Most people now accept that being straight or gay is not a decision; rather, sexuality is something which arises naturally.”

I'm sure this mother didn't come up with these comparisons on her own, as they're things that the TRA lobby are fond of saying when they try to imply that being concerned about the impact of this ideology on children is similar to being homophobic. But it doesn't stand up to any sort of analysis.

If it's natural why do 'trans children' need medication at all? If 'being trans' was similar to being gay, then we would leave those children alone, let them change their superficial appearance (clothes, hairstyles etc), change their name if they wanted to, and that would be it. We would tell them that they couldn't change sex, but any personalities were OK regardless of their sex.

Some natural conditions do need medication. These are diseases and long-term physical and mental health conditions. People who suffer from them are in need of medication in order to live a normal life, or be free of pain etc.

So if it's natural, like being gay is natural, it needs no treatment. If it's natural like a disease or health condition, it needs treatment or a cure, and we shouldn't be prevented from finding a better one or stopping one which seems to be harmful.

This particular condition is often treated as just like being gay in adults, who require no treatment for their transness, just a declaration that they've become the opposite sex, but in children it's treated as pathological and in need of urgent treatment (while still declaring it as 'just like being gay'). It makes no sense.

While the parents may have swallowed the whole line another aspect that comes over clearly is that some were or are at the end of their tethers with their kids.
Anyone who’s been there and has found camhs and any other support totally absent while a DC is fuelled by teenage issues being brought to the boil via what they find on the internet are vulnerable to anyone and anything that appears to offer help.
The real pressure now is for good help and support and proper safeguarding.
I think the desperation is a theme now apparent in parents quoted across various news reports

It's not on their Facebook or Twitter yet. Hope they put it up and intrigued to see the comments

[quote KihoBebiluPute]Excellent editorial from the Observer too:

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/dec/06/the-observer-view-on-the-high-courts-ruling-on-puberty-blocking-drugs-for-children[/quote]
This article is damning. Good on the observer.

From the article:

She added: “This echoes a discussion which used to be found around homosexuality, with questions like, when did you decide to be gay? Most people now accept that being straight or gay is not a decision; rather, sexuality is something which arises naturally.”

This is something TRAs are inconsistent on. Is it attraction to sex, or gender? Isn't attraction to a sex a 'genital fetish' and bad?

Or they may be lots of rather more unpleasant things.

Every parent who argues puberty blockers are reversible has a child who has no intention of ever stopping them, given ongoing access.

They only seem to care about puberty blockers being seen as reversible so they can keep getting them for themselves.

No one ever asks these parents why they’re so happy to be rendering their child infertile and sexually dysfunctional.

Really important to see that in the Observer - all my lefty friends who think I've had my head turned by the Murdoch press read it.

from the Observer Editorial

From the age of four or five, she started to prefer clothes and games society associates with boys

gosh it's like they're figuring out that the whole thing is built on sexist stereotypes

The Observer editorial doesn't pull its punches. That is really good to see. Wonder what Kath Viner is going to do at the Guardian - very interesting to see if she continues on her increasingly lonely path.

Very good from observer

Yes xxyzz in the Times podcast on this topic this week a mother of a ftm transitioner said exactly the same thing about PBs being reversible and was not questioned at all.

That editorial in the Observer especially the last section is great. I am not sure how anyone could read that and not agree.

*Here we are

Thanks rogdmum and KihoBebiluOute for the links.

Here are all saying that GIDS must step up and make sure the children are fully supported through this. And what are Mermaids doing? Having tantrums about the ruling.

*“It is natural,” she said. “It might be statistically uncommon, but then so too is ginger hair.”
“Trans children go through a period of lengthy assessment before a decision is taken by a specialist medic about whether they should be prescribed puberty blockers – a safe, reversible treatment which temporarily pauses puberty, gives a child thinking time, and saves them from having to watch their body transform in a way which causes them profound distress.”

The parents are as brainwashed as the children, is this as a result of the internet or coming from the clinics? Do you think the parents will change their minds when they’re finally told we have no idea if PBs are reversible?

That said, the first article annoyed me in this section:

"I did not imagine for one moment that the outcome of this case would be the effective withdrawal of medical care from children in dire need of it, and the removing of medical decisions from the hands of specialist doctors and the placing of them instead into the hands of judges who are not medically qualified,” said Molly Muirhead, the mother of a transgender boy.

She added: “I thought the facts were so abundantly clear that, waiting lists aside, no one serious could object to the status quo.

“Trans children go through a period of lengthy assessment before a decision is taken by a specialist medic about whether they should be prescribed puberty blockers – a safe, reversible treatment which temporarily pauses puberty, gives a child thinking time, and saves them from having to watch their body transform in a way which causes them profound distress."

Why have an article which warns of the dangers of online misinformation on the dangers of undergoing medical transition, only to include, uncritically, and without comment, a quote that then gives this misinformation, directly contradicting the findings of the court? Why was this quote included, or if included to show these parents' point of view, why was it not challenged?

Would be good if a newspaper covered how every single LGBT and Trans group on Reddit has been taken over by extreme trans activists and any dissenting opinions or alternate groups set up are immediately deleted/banned.

Glad the Observer is taking it's own stance.

Yet again someone spouts the line that much needed medical treatment has been withdrawn. Like Susie Green on Newsnight saying "this is the only area where you have to go to court to get treatment". The experimental drugs have been withdrawn, but it's very misleading to suggest there's no treatment at all on offer, or that blockers are the only possible treatment. Although I do appreciate that child mental health services are not in the best of states.

It will be interesting to see if there is a drop in the number of "trans children" once it becomes apparent that there is no longer the same possibility of access to puberty blockers and a clear "solution", for want of a much better word.