Observer today re Keira Bell

The gender believers are daily looking more and more like the right wing religious zealots they accuse us of being.

Everyone hates you and wants you dead, and if you hadn’t thought of suicide before, now is a good time, because that’s a perfectly normal response from someone in your position. It’s inexcusable.

It's almost as though they want there to be an increase in suicide attempts in order to prove that they are right. Why else would they do this to children who they say they care about?

I'm amazed Dawson wasn't in court representing GIDs or maybe Mermaids or the Tavistock to put those Judges right. Amazing how all this evidence being shouted about was missing from that court case.

Exactly.

It's all very Trumpy.

My personal favourite response was the one from Ben V on the quotes from the We're Still Here conference, in which he proudly announced that anyone who is even slightly concerned about this is "concern-trolling." That's quite a rhetorical trick, taking someone's valid concern and immediately deriding it as trolling just because he doesn't personally agree with it!

I would love to be a fly on the wall in the Graun or Observer offices in this showdown.

I’m unfailingly shocked by the position taken by those purporting to support these distressed young people “OH MY GOD EVERYONE HATES YOU AND THEY WANT YOU DEAD!!”.

I would have rather thought that support would be more along the lines of “OK, so we’re not sure if this treatment has helped you, and it might not be the best option. In the meantime, you are loved and supported and we will figure out what the best thing to do for you is. Don’t worry- there is hope”.

But no. Everyone hates you and wants you dead, and if you hadn’t thought of suicide before, now is a good time, because that’s a perfectly normal response from someone in your position. It’s inexcusable.

Edge, yes, it's been completely normalised. There's been a lot of grooming going on.

Absolutely Betty. And even then they're use is being debated for PP.

Once again; why the obsession for giving these drugs to children from adult males?

I think the reaction of some of these people make them look totally unhinged. They have been inside their echo chamber for so long and their sense of normality has become so skewed that they genuinely can't understand why most people outside of the bubble are horrified by the idea of a 12-year-old being set on a path to sterilisation and surgery.

I also hope that this reaction shakes the Guardian into realising just who it has been aligning itself with. These people can't even bring themselves to acknowledge that the case of Keira Bell should never have happened. No one has said something like 'what happened to Keira was awful but since then our procedures have tightened up and our psychological assessments are much more rigorous than they were in 2012'.

No. It's all accusations of transphobia, emotional blackmail about suicide and an insistence in some quarters in calling Keira 'Quincy'.

Really, Guardian, this is who you've been appeasing all these years?

Was so relieved to read today’s Observer editorial piece on this and came onto this board to see if it had been mentioned! I didn’t realise the Observer had a different position on this (I also thought it was effectively Guardian on Sunday as PP suggested)
Is this a sign the media may get braver after the Bell victory and will start to (finally) call out the emperor’s new clothes?
And I also wonder, will they now also follow suit with the issue of sex based protections and spaces? Or is that too much to hope for.

I doubt a child of 10 would be given a pb. We've had the odd child start puberty at primary then. It's usually reserved for extreme cases such as 6/7.

No 10 year old is given GnRHa drugs for precocious puberty. PP is classified as 8 or under in girls and there is discussion about reclassifying that to 7. PP girls are actually taken off blockers at 10.

There is no overlap between precocious puberty kids and gender dysphoria kids.

And leo had to ma ke a decision about freezing eggs for ivf iirc.

So there must be knowledge that this harms fertility.

I doubt a child of 10 would be given a pb. We've had the odd child start puberty at primary then. It's usually reserved for extreme cases such as 6/7.

It also isn't proven to impact height in girls (they're still quite short as adults) so physical development of the body would be the only reason. (The research is only in girls that I saw, and this was just for PP, a meta analysis. Pertinent as even fewer reasons to give them for PP.)

I believe pbs stunt growth which has more negative implications for one of the sexes when used for GD? Iirc the F to M?

But it means that the reality of "resuming" puberty is that if you're male, you're shorter than average? Which would disuade you from resuming. And peer wise most boys who are late developers really don't fit in. Girls either.

Also, depending on the drug (some last two years from injection) it can take well over a year to resume puberty.

I would also imagine a yp would seek out others who are on pb and would therefore be encouraged to continue (peer pressure; Leo had a lot of publicity for example)

The ‘waiting time’ is a rouse that they have come up with to make themselves seem less sinister. They also claim that only 1% of trans kids desists (bullshit) so the idea of needing thinking time is contradictory to that, as nobody changes their mind. They actually mean that they want to preserve the body in a childlike state so that the eventual results will be more ‘realistic’. They are having to overcome the slight snag that the law doesn’t allow CSH until 16, whereas they would ideally like to get them started ASAP on them. The blockers are presented as a benign way of helping children who are distressed but are actually fixing them to a lifetime of medicalisation.

Well done the Observer.

[quote SunsetBeetch]Juno Dawson, writer for the Young Adult market, stated that puberty blockers are NOT experimental and ARE reversible.

archive.vn/Sg8AV[/quote]
Juno used to go into schools fo promote Juno’s books, many of which are trans-themed, pre Covid.

Juno would be wise to start looking at slightly altered business model.

Sonia Sodha is the Observer's chief leader writer and I wonder if it's by her - she's taken a kind of middle path on the whole trans debate.

[quote SunsetBeetch]Juno Dawson, writer for the Young Adult market, stated that puberty blockers are NOT experimental and ARE reversible.

archive.vn/Sg8AV[/quote]
Yes there's a lot of "but cis" arguments.

Oooh, great Observer piece on pink and blue stereotyped toys by let toys be toys too:

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2020/dec/06/pink-and-blue-toys-colour-future-of-our-children-study-warns?CMP=ShareiOSAppp_Other

Juno Dawson also said this:

"I think there are a lot of gay men out there who are gay men as a consolation prize because they couldn’t be women."

Great message for young LGB people. Same-sex attraction is inferior to being the opposite 'gender'.

Surely editorials are never by named writers? They are presumed to be the voice of the newspaper.

Is this Dawson who writes about Lolitaesque fantasies aimed at the young adult market? Yeah.. nothing to see here..

It's more 1984 territory. A number of the articles of faith of the gender identity ideology have been found to be false so they either have to be made never to have been part of the narrative or need to be redefined to mean something else. So "born in the wrong body" turns out either never to have been said or to have been used as a metaphor. "Reversible" now means "not lifelong" and must be seen in the context of precocious puberty and not in the actual context being discussed.

Given it takes over a year for children who are treated with PB for precocious puberty to begin puberty, which they generally are "allowed" to do at 11/12, I cant imagine they get to have much time for natural puberty.

Yup. Probably why Dawson has said you don't need to read the actual article (which Dawson claims to know one of the writers of, even though no writers are named).