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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Urgent action for those in Scotland

382 replies

SusanSmithFWS · 05/12/2020 18:58

The amazing Johann Lamont has put in an amendment to the forensic medical services bill. This is a really important piece of legislation which seeks to make the process easier for rape victims and we support it. We are concerned, however, that although the women who testified that access to a female examiner was the most important concern, the bill still refers to the gender - instead of sex - of the examiner.

Sex, unlike gender, is defined in the Equality Act and there is provision for recruitment under schedule 9. We believe that a small change will ensure that there is no ambiguity.

We would urge anyone from Scotland to please write to all eight of their MSPs and ask them to support the motion.

As Susan Dalgety reported in the Scotsman:
Her amendment may be only six words long – “for the word ‘gender’ substitute ‘sex’” – but it gets to the heart of the current debate about who counts as a woman.

“Women should be able to choose the sex of the person who conducts the investigation,” Johann told me last night. “This is a key test for the Parliament, which is committed to rooting action in the understanding of experience. Women courageously and powerfully spoke up so that others might fare better than them.

“The amendment is tiny but would be a huge step in listening to survivors. The committee was convinced. The Parliament should be too.”

Six words can make a world of difference.

www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/transgender-debate-msps-must-stand-womens-sex-based-rights-key-vote-bill-help-rape-victims-susan-dalgety-3057640

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bookgirl1982 · 11/12/2020 07:42

I don't want to put a dampener on this but a cyclical thought...

Did this amendment get passed because the MSPs truly support it, or because they don't think it makes any difference? Ie with self-id and the current state of capture of govt and organisations, transwomen will be allowed into these roles and women will feel obliged to accept treatment/services from them.

334bu · 11/12/2020 01:20

The abstention was from Christine Graham who cannot vote either yes or no as she is a Presiding Officer

littlbrowndog · 11/12/2020 00:57

Just saying

Urgent action for those in Scotland
allmywhat · 11/12/2020 00:05

there is evidence that woke staff are tampering with MPs correspondence? Really?

It's anecdotal! Women on here who have written to their MPs multiple times who finally secured in-person meetings with them, and explained everything only to find their MPs knew nothing about the issue and found it all extremely surprising and alarming. More than one woman.

But the radio silence from MSPs before this vote seems to be explained by behind-the-scenes discussions in the SNP.

I do wonder though if anyone who's good with FOIs could find out more about what went on behind the scenes re this amendment. Especially in Rape Crisis Scotland.

TheShadowyFeminist · 11/12/2020 00:00

"Wrap it right roond ye, fudmeister!"

Grin

I'm just blown away that the result was so overwhelming in favour of the amendment.

Libdems & greens will be toast next May.

SusanSmithFWS · 10/12/2020 23:29

Thank you to everyone who emailed and lobbied on this. We are rather "tired and emotional" just now.

Johann was outstanding. Her speech was so full of intelligence and fury.

We are horrified that TRAs are suggesting tonight that this was an attack on rape crisis services. We had the support of many survivors and counsellors who wanted their voices heard. The Bill was the result of long years of work and RCS deserve all credit. We just wish they carried through to this amendment which reflected the needs of the women they brought as witnesses.

Women deserve to be heard and they should never be shamed into silence.

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EachDubh · 10/12/2020 23:10

Thank goodness for common sense. Makes the SNP powers that be look a bitty stupid though for not just agreeing in the first place. I used to support the SNP but now feel very homeless...

NonnyMouse1337 · 10/12/2020 22:56

What an outstanding result. I did not expect such a landslide!!

Thank you everyone who emailed their MSPs, followed up on replies, tweeted and worked behind the scenes.

Good to send thank you emails to those MSPs who supported the amendment. And yes, thank you cards to Johann Lamont. Smile

HecatesCatsInXmasHats · 10/12/2020 22:55

Louder for the people at the back

Urgent action for those in Scotland
HecatesCatsInXmasHats · 10/12/2020 22:52

Emma Hilton:

"Six words.

Six words that perfectly encapsulate a movement.

#SixWords #SexMatters #SexNotGender"

Urgent action for those in Scotland
TheLadyOfShallnott · 10/12/2020 22:39

I like a polite scottish telling ‘arabella*

Like this post on Twitter to ML.

‘Don’t blame anyone else love, we have eyes, ears and aren’t buttoned up the back’

Aye. That.

Johann Lamont and the choir who sang out. thank you. Flowers

HecatesCatsInXmasHats · 10/12/2020 22:14

[quote ItsAllGoingToBeFine]List of no voters here: wingsoverscotland.com/scotlands-disgraces/[/quote]
All those smiling men Angry

HecatesCatsInXmasHats · 10/12/2020 22:11

This is a massive relief! So pleased. Can't even fathom that it got to this stage.

purplebutterflybiscuits · 10/12/2020 22:07

Can someone clarify abstention? Is it a choice or is there a reason they could not vote?

WaltzingBetty · 10/12/2020 22:06

@littlbrowndog

Andy wightman. 🤦‍♀️
I assume you got the same illogical Green Party cut and paste response I did? I've responded challenging his faulty logic.

Pleased with my SNP response though - it was positive and well thought out.

I'm planning on emailing again saying that I have concerns over the SNP approach to safeguarding female spaces and women in legislation generally, but that I'm pleased with today's vote and hope this is the start of positive change

terryleather · 10/12/2020 22:02

I am astounded! This is just fantastic news!!

Well done to everyone involved in getting the amendment passed - still can't quite believe it.

Wrap it right roond ye, fudmeister! Grin

howonearthdidwegethere · 10/12/2020 21:28

One of the Lib Dems didn't vote at all (Liam McArthur).

An SNP MSP was the abstention (Christine Grahame).

The votes are online now: www.parliament.scot/parliamentarybusiness/report.aspx?r=13005&mode=pdf

Columns 93&94

Against
Cole-Hamilton, Alex (Edinburgh Western) (LD)
Finnie, John (Highlands and Islands) (Green)
Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green)
Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green)
Rennie, Willie (North East Fife) (LD)
Rumbles, Mike (North East Scotland) (LD)
Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green)
Wightman, Andy (Lothian) (Green)
Wishart, Beatrice (Shetland Islands) (LD)
Abstentions
Grahame, Christine (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and
Lauderdale) (SNP)
The Presiding Officer: The result of the
division is: For 113, Against 9, Abstentions 1.
Amendment 28 agreed to.

PaleBlueMoonlight · 10/12/2020 21:04

Thank goodness.

334bu · 10/12/2020 20:56

Just emailed Ross Greer asking him why he voted against. I think it's important that they justify their vote

Annnnnnnnnd · 10/12/2020 20:55

A purely ideological decision by those parties. I've had it with them.

334bu · 10/12/2020 20:54

Who abstained?

Galvantula · 10/12/2020 20:49

I'm not sure I could remain that civil to Ruskell and Rennie. 😑

Galvantula · 10/12/2020 20:48

I wrote a wee thanks for replying/supporting the amendment back to the 4 that emailed me.

I'm not going to email them all again, but very tempted to send a "Willie Rennie? What on earth were you playing at?" ©Glitterypants

Sexnotgender · 10/12/2020 20:17

@Glitterypants

Willie Rennie? What on earth was he playing at?
Cowardly over privileged shitebags the lot of them.
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