Urgent action for those in Scotland

I see the (blessedly) former women's convener is busy wanging off on Twitter again. Not a happy bunny at all.

I was in the SGP for about 5 minutes, before I realised what being a member of a political party actually entailed.

I was in the SGP for many years. The SGP I joined with Robin Harper as MSP would have voted for the amendment. Mr Harvie has turned it in to the party of woke identity politics, misogyny and intolerance

The Greens knew exactly what they were doing. They deliberately threw rape victims under the bus (or attempted to). I sent them all the evidence of the SNP making it clear that gender and sex meant different things. Just in case they hadn't already read it. And pleaded to them to think of the effect on traumatised women who had just been raped. They don't give a toss.

It's the sanctimonious reminding that this is about survivors, as of rape survivors didn't make up about two fifths of the female population, that gets me. These men mean well, perhaps, but they have no real idea of issues faced by women.

I honestly don't believe that they think beyond the party/tribal line, especially on issues that won't directly affect them.

Apart from everything that's been discussed here, it's disgusting that an issue like this is being used to play politics and virtue signal ideological positions - I have nothing but utter contempt for those who have behaved in this way.

No, he's written it all by himself.

Voted against it because he thought it wouldn't make any difference. And in accordance with advice from rape Crisis, to paraphrase.

It's the sanctimonious reminding that this is about survivors, as of rape survivors didn't make up about two fifths of the female population, that gets me. These men mean well, perhaps, but they have no real idea of issues faced by women.

mobile.twitter.com/mbmpolicy/status/1337372353446240264

Govt funded groups still challenging definition of female today.

I wasn't going to bother replying to the fudmeister, but I might reconsider...

Oh! Finally!

I get a reply from someone! Green. Patronising, offensive, and really quite infuriating. Am composing a reply.

I think it does. It’s also been helpful to use in discussion with people who are not usually interested in this stuff as it’s so obvious to anyone normal that victims should be able to choose the sex of their examiner.

It’s made it less nebulous for people, so they can really see the dangerous nature if all this, as opposed to shrugging and saying “Each to their own”.

I think this debate potentially shifts things.

Yes, I agree. And also about it no longer being under the radar.

*I think this debate potentially shifts things. Not least because of the overwhelming agreement of parliament. And the fact that the SNP sided with 'sex not gender'.

It perhaps lays the path for the coming court action from For Women Scotland, where they challenge recent Scotgov moves trying to replace 'sex' with 'gender'.*

Fingers very much crossed

That was Monica Lennon

The first point that matters is that:

1. We have a clear discussion and agreement on the fact that the terms 'sex' and 'gender' are not interchangeable.

and

1. We have seen some people argue very hard that the word should be 'gender', while still maintaining that it doesn't make any difference. Why would they do that?

Remember that the largest part of the populace still thinks these terms are the same thing. The largest part of the populace has not grasped yet - or is only just starting to grasp - that 'gender', as it is being used at the moment, effectively means 'men and women'.

So this whole debate has laid out in the clearest possible terms that 'sex' means biological sex and 'gender' means - well, whatever you want it to mean.

I think this debate potentially shifts things. Not least because of the overwhelming agreement of parliament. And the fact that the SNP sided with 'sex not gender'.

It perhaps lays the path for the coming court action from For Women Scotland, where they challenge recent Scotgov moves trying to replace 'sex' with 'gender'.

• And lastly that Labour MSP who tried to drag the argument back to transpeople and maintain that a male with a GRC could still present themselves as a female even if a rape victim had specifically requested a female (why the fuck would anyone do that?)(plus I believe the Equality Act makes very specific provision for exemptions even when someone has a GRC for instances exactly like this) (not a lawyer, though) showed with quite breathtaking cruelty how skewed this debate has become, and what women are up against. How women who are asking for single sex spaces - sometimes for incredibly intimate and upsetting reasons - are being set up as 'bigots' and treated like pariahs. It was a very clear illustration and will have provided insight, I think.

That's really interesting, allmy, if "interesting" meant "deeply chilling".

Wow, great news!

We are horrified that TRAs are suggesting tonight that this was an attack on rape crisis services. We had the support of many survivors and counsellors who wanted their voices heard. The Bill was the result of long years of work and RCS deserve all credit. We just wish they carried through to this amendment which reflected the needs of the women they brought as witnesses.

TRAs and their supporters have suggested that every single time there has been some social media pressure on women's services to respect the women who use their services' clearly expressed wish for female only space. Its a well honed DARVO tactic. It's not you.

That’s extremely creepy

wingsoverscotland.com/waiting-for-the-men/#more-119505

Male not males

And a biological males still runs Forth Valley Rape crisis centre. This person 'identifies' as a woman but did not disclose their sex at interview, then boasted about on Twitter. They have now deleted those tweets. They also tried to stand as an MSP for the Nats, I believe they are a Women's officer for the SNP, or similar.

I’d heard the same as @Dances

Wings' contacts said SNP finally supported it because they realised it would pass anyway, and they didn't want a defeat. They also dont want more attention on this, as the point was to get this shit in under the radar. That part didn't go so well.

Cynical even...