Court verdict on puberty blockers won't affect Scottish children

That was a very good piece.

They have two people who write on this topic in The National, ItsAll, Shona Craven and Stephen/Steph (non-binary) Paton.

The former is a very sharp, smart and engaged young woman who really does her research. The latter is an angry transactivist.

This piece was written by Shona, unsurprisingly!

So has Kiera & Mrs A's case brought another chink of light to Scotland?

They need to show their working out on this one.

www.thenational.scot/news/18919508.shona-craven-mens-rants-must-not-drown-child-protection-fears/

Title odd but content about Keira and Sandyford

Sandyford do refer for blockers. Very little psychological support. Grouchykiwi, what parents are thinking is, my child is miserable and desperate, the gender clinic sounds like the sort of place they will get support to work through their issues, and the help they need. My GP thinks they could help. It will be staffed by professionals who will apply evidence based medicine to help my child, stop them self harming, self hating and truanting. Maybe thorough counselling from someone who really gets it. It’s not what happens, but you can’t knock them for supposing it might.

Something of potential interest that I was told by someone who transitioned (MtT) about 10 years ago via the Sandyford is that they were sued before, back then, by someone who changed their mind. Which is apparently why they used to be (10+ years ago) so strict with who they let progress through medical transition.

This has been front page news, I expect many parents who had been considering taking their children to the Sandyford will be starting to ask questions and have second thoughts.

Anyway, sadly, we'll probably find out in the next few years, once some more Scottish children are needlessly harmed.

I don't give a fuck what anyone says, if 4 year olds are being referred, it's because this is being deliberately put in their heads. This is not a normal thing for 4 year olds to be worrying about at all. This is down to the adults around them.

Especially having just read the list of things that qualify for gender dysphoria. Any child who is deeply distressed by their genitalia at age 4 needs urgent safeguarding questions asked.

I don't know, Pear. Over 16s are presumed competent to make their own medical decisions, including taking part in medical trials in Scotland. If an individual of that age is not competent then they're supposed to follow provision for adults. I think the only way it could be otherwise is if there was precedence in situations like Jehovah's Witnesses and refusing blood transfusions.

But I am not a lawyer, and DH isn't in this area, so it would take a specialist to unpack it, I think.

Yes, there’s more than just filling out a form. I’m just saying that the formal consent is obtained by UCLH or Leeds, not by the Tavi.

Yes, the consent forms are supplied by UCLH or Leeds at the endocrinology dept. I have copied of all of them if anyone is interested. UCLH also had a solicitor present at Keira’s case

Surely it requires more than an ability to fill out a form to determine informed consent?

They used the example of a distressed 16 year old anorexic girl, saying she couldn't refuse treatment because her illness was making her incapable of making a rational decision (I paraphrase).

But that’s the same as the Tavi. The Tavi don’t do PBs either. They make their assessment and then refer onto UCLH or Leeds Teaching Hospital.

So who would normally assess ability to consent? I'd assume the endocrinologist would as well, or do they just accept a referral and assume consent has been given?

Just reading a 2020 paper by the paediatric endocrinologist in Glasgow who I deduce works with the Sandyford - it's quite a good summary of what he believes the risks and benefits are, and how decisions are made.

www.mattioli1885journals.com/index.php/actabiomedica/article/view/9244/8552

Pear Sorry, I was referring specifically to the part of the judgement referring to 16- and 17-year-olds.

True, michelle.

Having had a brief dig, I don't think the Sandyford does do puberty blockers. They refer on to a paediatric endocrinologist who presumably will do their own assessment?

I couldn't find any guidelines for when and how these referrals happen and whether the endocrinologist is likely to refuse treatment.

It’s this vastly irritating drive the SNP have to be more liberal than the English, more forward looking,

They're deluding themselves that it's forward looking

It's heavy on early Victorian and heading back through Puritanism to Medieval destruction of the abbeys and enforcing of the One Truth Faith. All they're missing really is Cromwell and Cardinal Wolsey.

And it's not like this time they have any excuse about its all the fault of the insane fat bloke, he's got syphilis.

Iirc the FTM detransitioner Watson was pretty scathing about the Sandyford and their treatment there...it was in a youtube video interview but I cant remember who with - possibly Benjamin Boyce...?