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Original poster

Surely this list of behaviours that challenge social convention are not THE list used by medical professionals to diagnos gender dysphoria?

64 replies

stumbledin · 03/12/2020 14:38

Diagnosis of gender dysphoria involves children demonstrating at least six of a series of behavioural traits as well as an “associated significant distress or impairment in function, lasting at least six months”.

Those patterns of behaviour include:

• A strong desire to be of the other gender or an insistence that one is the other gender.

• A strong preference for wearing clothes typical of the other gender.

• A strong preference for cross-gender roles in make-believe play or fantasy play.

• A strong preference for toys, games or activities stereotypically used or engaged in by the other gender.

• A strong preference for playmates of the other gender.

• A strong rejection of toys, games and activities typical of one’s assigned gender.

• A strong dislike of one’s sexual anatomy.

• A strong desire for the physical sex characteristics that match one’s experienced gender.
_

With the exception of the last two surely all are fairly common, and in previous generations would just have been accepted as a phase.

How is it possible that in fact people who are educated enough to be in medicine are so unaware of how societies change over time.

Men used to have long hair and wear much more colourful clothes. Its only since the Victorian era that they had such a rigid and limited dress code.

If challenging current attitudes is seen as a medical condition, how is it that others who challenge the imposed narrative aren't also seen as having a medical condition.

And how is it that parents are themselves so limited in their view of how the world should be are not only playing along with this, but in some cases actively encouraging it.

Just think Billie Elliot might never have learnt to dance but instead become a trans girl.

(By the way it was a Guardian article which implies this is what they think is a rational explanation of a medical condition.)

OP posts:
Original poster
stumbledin · 03/12/2020 17:02

I keep coming back to read both lists and I just cannot believe this is what is actually happening.

Believe it or not, although the alternative culture got a bad name (a lot of them were really grubby) this was what a lot of the talk was about. And believe it or not, when it seemed men just wouldn't change and somehow women were still doing the domestic work, while men ran the "revolution" is one of the reasons the Women's Liberation Movement happened in the 70s.

In some horrible way it is almost like the untimate punishment of women for daring to assume, and starting to achieve a break away from the stiffling conformity of stereotypical roles.

I just cannot understand how in the 21st century anybody would accept these as guidelines. It makes the 1950s look enlightened. Its almost victorian.

OP posts:
Winesalot · 03/12/2020 16:28

I know I would have had 6 as a child. And I am not trans but I would surely have taken steps as a young teen if it was a available. And it would have been a mistake.....

Whatisthisfuckery · 03/12/2020 16:16

So if a child satisfies 6 of the above criteria they are considered to be damaged enough to need sterilising? I suppose if you weed out the undesirable specimens from the gene pool we’ll have a master race in a few generations. Good little women looking pretty and serving their men folk, and good strong manly men doing man things.

Can somebody remind me what fucking century we’re living in please?

PlanDeRaccordement · 03/12/2020 16:09

The NHS list is equally disturbing. The way it reads, being gender nonconforming has been medicalised to be a mental illness of gender dysphoria. The ‘distress’ is caused by society refusing to accept the diversity within each sex and how each sex has overlap in the things individual men or women prefer to do.

Original poster
stumbledin · 03/12/2020 16:04

Astonished - again!

List for adults, presumably compiled by medical professionals talks about assigned gender at birth.

All this shows that this has nothing to do with medical practice, but people who have (for whatever reason) totally bought into a belief set. No one is a gender, either born or assigned.

It reminds me of a film I watched by accident (ie I wouldn't have chosen it) called Idiocracy. ie we are all getting dumber so that if you froze someone who was not thought particularly bright in the 2000s and transported them to the future, they would be a genius.

Some of it is so stupid you just want to laugh. But unfortunately it is so damaging you have to stop and engage your brain with this reverse thinking.

OP posts:
StrippedFridge · 03/12/2020 16:02

I'd have thought the last two would be stronger indicators of either sexual abuse or sex-based oppression (not allowed out alone, forced marriage etc).

A strong dislike of one’s sexual anatomy.

A strong desire for the physical sex characteristics that match one’s experienced gender

OldCrone · 03/12/2020 15:59

It's very similar to the list the NHS used to have on their website. It was only changed earlier this year.

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20200502223745/www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/symptoms/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20200502223745/www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/symptoms/

Gender dysphoria behaviours in children can include:

  • insisting they're of the opposite sex
  • disliking or refusing to wear clothes that are typically worn by their sex and wanting to wear clothes typically worn by the opposite sex
  • disliking or refusing to take part in activities and games that are typically associated with their sex, and wanting to take part in activities and games typically associated with the opposite sex
  • preferring to play with children of the opposite biological sex
  • disliking or refusing to pass urine as other members of their biological sex usually do – for example, a boy may want to sit down to pass urine and a girl may want to stand up
  • insisting or hoping their genitals will change – for example, a boy may say he wants to be rid of his penis, and a girl may want to grow a penis
  • feeling extreme distress at the physical changes of puberty
midgebabe · 03/12/2020 15:35

I met them all as a child and whilst I no longer do the first or last ( well , I'd be happy to lose the boobs but no desire for a penis ) , all the others are still true today

Ha bloody ha. Yet again they might have known something if they had bothered to ask women

PlanDeRaccordement · 03/12/2020 15:24

A strong desire to be treated as a gender other than one's assigned gender

Doesn’t this describe every feminist? The desire to be treated as well as men are treated is part of becoming equal to men.

WeeBisom · 03/12/2020 15:20

It's also interesting to note that the diagnostic criteria for adults are quite different:
A strong desire to be of a gender other than one's assigned gender
A strong desire to be treated as a gender other than one's assigned gender
A significant incongruence between one's experienced or expressed gender and one's sexual characteristics
A strong desire for the sexual characteristics of a gender other than one's assigned gender
A strong desire to be rid of one's sexual characteristics due to incongruence with one's experienced or expressed gender
A strong conviction that one has the typical reactions and feelings of a gender other than one's assigned gender
In addition, the condition must be associated with clinically significant distress or impairment.

PlanDeRaccordement · 03/12/2020 14:46

Terrible. I met these six:
A strong preference for wearing clothes typical of the other gender.
A strong preference for cross-gender roles in make-believe play or fantasy play.
A strong preference for toys, games or activities stereotypically used or engaged in by the other gender.
A strong preference for playmates of the other gender.
A strong rejection of toys, games and activities typical of one’s assigned gender.
A strong dislike of one’s sexual anatomy.

I still meet them as an adult.
But I’m not trans. I’m a gender nonconforming woman.

Mumofgirlswholiketoplaywithmud · 03/12/2020 14:44

@StrippedFridge

That's like a Buzzfeed list of how to tell if you grew up in a sexist family.

How anyone cannot see that this is all driven by sexism and homopshobia is beyond me.

Yep.
Mumofgirlswholiketoplaywithmud · 03/12/2020 14:43

Yep. That's DSM V, I think. www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/gender-dysphoria/what-is-gender-dysphoria

StrippedFridge · 03/12/2020 14:42

That's like a Buzzfeed list of how to tell if you grew up in a sexist family.

How anyone cannot see that this is all driven by sexism and homopshobia is beyond me.

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