Surely this list of behaviours that challenge social convention are not THE list used by medical professionals to diagnos gender dysphoria?

I think stereotyping is in some ways worse than it was when I was growing up in the 60s and 70s.

Back then, families had less disposable income to spend on children's clothes, toys and accessories like prams, so there was no point in manufacturers making pink and blue variants in the hope of conning parents into buying the pink one for their daughter and then ditching that and replacing it with a blue one when they had a son. Every baby in the family went into the bog standard black or dark blue pram. Every child played with the same Lego. The blue jumper that Granny knitted for little Johnnie was handed down to little Mary if it still had any wear left in it. Lots of little girls had short hair (I did) because it was so much more practical at a time when many families only had baths and hairwashing once or twice a week.

flashbak.com/lego-marketing-materials-from-the-1960s-1980s-encouraged-boys-and-girls-to-build-together-404973/ Interesting article here about Lego advertising through the decades. Skim it for the pictures. They tell their own story. Depressing.

Except mermaids say its not stereotypes

Nor is it the wrong body

Which leaves you with what exactly? Certainly not 6 points....

I’m still chewing over that list and thinking about it in relation to the decision on puberty blockers.

I’m not at all convinced that the trans allies expressing their shock on my Facebook page are aware of the flimsiness of the diagnostic criteria. I’ve no doubt at all that the kids they are going to battle for are distressed, I believe that is absolutely true. But based on this list, they’re being diagnosed with an inability to adhere to sex role stereotypes, and the concept that you ought to drug children out of that is astonishing.

@Mumofgirlswholiketoplaywithmud

If only she had told them she identified as male

In all seriousness, it is insane how quickly things have changed.

in the United States soccer is more popular with girls and (I think) lacrosse with boys...

Yes, soccer/football in the US is basically gender neutral, maybe slightly more popular with Mostly Lacrosse is for boys and the girls’ sport equivalent (due to title IX there has to be) is field hockey.

You’d think feminism had never happened. Children now being squashed back into the stereotypes we broke out of in the 70s. Only now with added drugs and surgery.

My dad spent the 60s with long hair dressed in floral blouses. My mum was mainly in dungarees with a pixie cut.

I must get on the phone and tell them they are trans. They'll be flabberghasted.

I can look back as an adult and know I just wanted what boys had but 9 year me would have thought the only way to get what boy has is to be a boy. So, yes I would have said

I really want to be a boy. Is there something I'm missing?

All the parents I know who are caught up in this are absolutely against it so I really have no idea what parents who support this think.

@SonEtLumiere - exactly! She often relies on the argument - She is just being pragmatic blah blah blah whereas I am chasing unicorns.

I met the first 6 and was happy to be described as a tomboy. Now when I look back, when I said 'I wish I were a boy' what I actually meant was I wish I were treated the same as the boys. I wanted the same choices and freedoms they had.

Yes, Wee, but I feel that a lot of the narrative of gender ideology is actually doing a lot of work to create a more rigidly gendered society.

Yes, me too. I view gender confirmation surgery as part of that. It’s not allowing a masculine woman or feminine man to exist. It’s a war on the gender nonconforming.

Its very depressing isn't it? I would have fit most of the above criteria as a child. I wasn't a girly girl at all, I as really at odds with my body during puberty and most of my male crushes would now be considered queer icons and I had more than a few female crushes. I could have been sold into this so easily.

Having a conversation with a friend. My position is simple. If as a society we were less hung up on stereotypes and more accepting of people dressing and presenting how they desire without fear of abuse it would likely mean people were less inclined to think - I like this so I must be X. The real issue I think is social stereotyping and cultural expectations.
My friend's position was that my views are fantastical and given we will never get to a society like I describe we must persevere with hormone and surgical treatment. She didn't disagree with my assessment just that I was)am niave. I found that very difficult to counter other than to say if we don't challenge nothing will change.

Yep, had 6 of those. Had a "boy's" name too (my parents shortened my name to a name which is traditionally a boy's name). Didn't question it. Just knew that I was "me". I think that the idea of putting pronouns in my bio makes me uncomfortable as I think that if I had been told that this "you need to choose your gender" is truth, then I would probably be non-binary now. I just think that the bandwidth of what being a woman is wider than their boxes.

It's a bit like if someone asked "what age do you identify as". I don't identify as an age. But there will be some people who feel younger than what would stereotypically be their age, or older. Age really is a spectrum, and genetically we all age differently, mature at different rates. I wouldn't discriminate against anyone who changed their appearance to be younger, but I don't feel that I identify as my age anymore than I identify as my sex "assigned at birth". It just is.

Yep, met all those pre-puberty. Spent a long time thinking I was going to grow a willy. Dressed as Robin Hood and made myself long bows for quite a long time (alternate fantasy character was a highwayman or a pirate-always male). Had a family boy nickname, preferred playing with boys.

I never wore dresses or played with dolls. When I met strangers told them I was a boy. I puked everywhere in shock when I first heard about periods and I think I would have very likely wanted to avoid them.

These were all normal when I was growing up. I had a good cohort of tomboy friends and I think they mostly grew up to be lesbians. Growing up today I do wonder if we'd have been a trans cluster.

Yes, Wee, but I feel that a lot of the narrative of gender ideology is actually doing a lot of work to create a more rigidly gendered society.

What is interesting about this diagnostic list is how much of it depends on us living in a particular kind of gendered society. If children all play with the same toys it’s nonsense to talk of “toys for the other gender.” If children all wear whatever clothes they like , then there will no gendered clothes. How much if gender dysphoria really is due to us living in such a rigidly gendered society?

The ‘distress’ is caused by society refusing to accept the diversity within each sex and how each sex has overlap in the things individual men or women prefer to do

Yep. All of this insistence on how people conform to gender suggests gender roles/stereotypes are far more rigid and strict than they actually are. 'clothes that are typically worn by their sex' - I mean, ffs. The utter po-faced bollockery of it.

"A strong rejection of toys, games and activities typical of one’s assigned gender."

... but what on earth is 'typical' for one gender or another that isn't based on stereotyping?!

Just because capitalism benefits from heavily gendering kids' toys in ways that are laughable (pink Lego!)...